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buccaneerNW

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#30 : September 13, 2013, 01:06:56 AM

"Hypothesize, research, present findings and it becomes accepted as fact until someone can prove it as wrong."

You mean that "settled science" is often times no settled. Well I'll be damned.

i wanted to believe in the flat earth thing.

Of course. Science advances. Sometimes conclusions are wrong, but as of right now, science accepts anthropogenic global warming. Do you choose to reject all scientific conclusions because some things are eventually disproven? How do you distinguish between scientific conclusions you're willing to accept and ones you reject? I think that's an important question if your argument is simply that science is wrong sometimes.

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Cyrus

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#31 : September 13, 2013, 01:20:30 AM

"Sometimes conclusions are wrong, but as of right now, science accepts anthropogenic global warming."

I agree the science is not settled nor have you provided a correlation of anthropogenic impact.

buccaneerNW

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#32 : September 13, 2013, 01:20:38 AM

If the link between man made impact on global climate change is so strong why are you talking about Al Gore Rush Limbaugh and a flat earth?

Seems to me if the link was so demonstrably clear you would want to show us. You're drifting from "settled science" to politics. Therein lies your group think.

I didn't mention Al Gore. That was someone else.

I don't see how recognizing the political component of the argument makes me guilty of group-think. Generally speaking, people who deny climate change/global warming are conservative. They also tend to distrust other science, such as evolution. They also do tend to think of FauxNooz and Limbaugh as acceptable sources of information.

And, again, it is settled science. Are you expecting me to describe all the science to you in this thread? I have been reading and listening to information on this issue for 20 years. If not being a scientist, yet accepting the conclusions of science makes me guilty of group-think... then there's not a single human that's not guilty of the same thing on many levels.

And, worth noting, NO ONE IN THIS THREAD, has offered information that rebuts global warming science. It's all about who you're willing to trust. My group-think with scientists is your group-think with the fossil-fuel industry.

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buccaneerNW

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#33 : September 13, 2013, 01:22:01 AM

"Sometimes conclusions are wrong, but as of right now, science accepts anthropogenic global warming."

I agree the science is not settled nor have you provided a correlation of anthropogenic impact.

I suppose you want me to present a paper here? You're just being a **CENSORED** and have offered nothing but childish garbage in this thread.

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Cyrus

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#34 : September 13, 2013, 01:32:01 AM

"I suppose you want me to present a paper here?"

No, at this point, I'll settle for any semblance of a reasonable argument that back your assertions.

buccaneerNW

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#35 : September 13, 2013, 01:49:09 AM

It is scientific consensus. That's good enough for me until I hear some information that gives me reason to think there's a different explanation.

But, for your benefit.... the science, as I understand it looks at a correlation between increases of C02, methane, and other potential "greenhouse gases"... The increasing levels of those gases in our atmosphere would be expected to have a heating effect (science again). Observations using scientific measurements have shown that to be occurring. Humans are the ones creating the increases in these gases. The missing piece is causation. That would be impossible to show, but an understanding of the gases and heating in the abstract, plus a high correlation with observation is obviously enough for science to declare that global warming is being caused by humans.

My guess is that no argument would be satisfying, so I'm gonna leave it there.

- Dont bee kritisyzun gramer end punktushun on dis baored becuz its for talkn uhbowtt the Bukx.


Cyrus

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#36 : September 13, 2013, 01:54:16 AM

"And, worth noting, NO ONE IN THIS THREAD, has offered information that rebuts global warming science."

No one has to. The onus is on you to make the case.

You want others to accept your claims and repetitious proclamations that "the science is settled". Then you acknowledge that it may not be.

Hardly convincing stuff when the impact of the resulting economic policies are so profound. Have you considered these policies and the huge impact it will likely have on many parts of the world?

I'm all down w/ ecology and preserving the earth but I'm not going to buy into a dubious anthropogenic driven climate change argument to do it.


buccaneerNW

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#37 : September 13, 2013, 02:31:48 AM

The onus is not on me. I am not a scientist. Global warming is settled science as much as any science can be "settled." The question is whether one accepts scientific consensus or not. The arguments have been made by people far more educated than me. I think the arguments are very convincing, and I tend to trust science. I do believe that a large part of the denial in this country can be traced to disinformation campaigns by organizations with vested interests in fossil fuels. That's not even in dispute. I also think we are already seeing plenty of extreme weather events that tend to support that we are beginning to experience the effects of global warming. I'm convinced it is happening, and I think we need to get off of fossil fuels ASAP or this planet will be uninhabitable 100 years from now. Meanwhile, the impacts on humanity will grow more profound by the day. The agriculture business is already feeling the impact. We've also seen record wildfires, monster tornadoes, and historic heat waves... So the impacts over the long term are potentially far greater than the national investments we ought to be making in alternative energy right now. So, that's what I think about when we talk about economic impacts.

I don't expect to ever win this argument in this venue. You can't convince anyone of anything if they're not interested in considering it. I give up. It's like arguing about religion.
: September 13, 2013, 02:38:19 AM buccaneerNW

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mwk

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#38 : September 13, 2013, 06:49:15 AM

Scientific consensus does not equate to good science. I see that you like to throw out the 97% lie of all scientist. Well...it is based on a lie, as is all of the global warming scam. If you care to educate yourself, please read this article: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/14/fuzzy-math-in-a-new-soon-to-be-published-paper-john-cook-claims-consensus-on-32-6-of-scientific-papers-that-endorse-agw/
or for that matter, any of the articles here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=97%25
Also...none of the "deniers" has to prove anything. That is up to the so-called scientist to prove their theory. And so far...they haven't. In fact mother nature herself has disproved the theory pretty well over the past 16 years with no measurable warming, and in fact, cooling recently, even though the supposed climate driver "C02" has continued to rise. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. All this thing is a money grab. Always was, always has been.
mwk

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#39 : September 13, 2013, 06:54:51 AM

 "the science, as I understand it looks at a correlation between increases of C02, methane, and other potential "greenhouse gases"... The increasing levels of those gases in our atmosphere would be expected to have a heating effect (science again)

Put your little science hat back on and pay attention: the rate at which a substance precipitates out of solution is dependant on temperature and vapor pressure. In other words, rising temperatures cause a release of gas into the atmosphere. For an outstanding example of this, watch Al's movie where he whips out his giant chart to impress people like you. While he's telling you that temperatures follow CO2 levels, a closer examination reveals that CO2 is following temperature levels. "Correlation is not causation" - a base scientific principle.

And by the way, I know more about evolution than you do. A LOT more. As most of the people in this thread probably do. Then again, that bar's likely not set too high.

Well, thanks for educating us ignorant country folk, science man. That little propeller on top of your science hat really suits you.

Bucfucious

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#40 : September 13, 2013, 07:11:41 AM

Anyone notice that this is becoming a cyclical event? Every few years we get one of these guys wanting to come in here and talk down to us poor heathens. Maybe rising CO2 levels are reducing oxygen to their brain?

mwk

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#41 : September 13, 2013, 08:19:04 AM

Global Warming Overestimated? Say it isn't so!

http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs/Climate%20change/Climate%20model%20results/over%20estimate.pdf

mwk

Runole

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#42 : September 13, 2013, 08:29:41 AM

Show us the evidence that global warming is man-made, Fact Man.

Really? That response didn't get any better.

While I may not be a climate scientist myself, I do trust the CONSENSUS of the scientific community and that DOES in fact say that it is created by human activity. I also have a close family member who has studied this subject matter extensively and doesn't doubt the reality of global warming AT ALL.

Meanwhile, all you deniers are basically being duped by fossil-fuel funded propaganda strategically designed to create doubt. You're making a choice in favor of the fossil-fuel industry's self serving talking points. I am choosing the information presented by science. It's all a question of who you trust.


Your trust is completely misguided.  Yes the earth is in a warming trend...Yes last year the Ice caps increased substantially..   But NO!  The opinion that global warming is due to man is up for debate.  Additionally the ridiculous thought that it can somehow be controlled is up for debate.   There is compelling evidence that despite mankind's outrageous ego that the earth undergoes warming and cooling cycles.   Sure alternative energy is a great idea and lessening dependance on fossil fuels is a great idea but throwing out excessive propaganda is counterproductive.

Your information being presented though scientific in origin is not scientific fact and again  understand Scientific Fact is not determined by a majority vote!   That is the most important point If there is any contrary  evidence than it is just a theory yet to be proven.

All the fear mongering being produced by that majority vote is again being shown for what it truly is a Political agenda to rip off US taxpayers and business.

You do realize that one of the major concepts of funded research and getting those tax dollars comes from announcing something wrong or detrimental to mankind.   

Sure there are doubts being cast by the fossil fuel industry but there is also valid scientific research that is disagrees 100 % with that majority vote and their unnecessary fear mongering.


Bucfucious

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#43 : September 13, 2013, 08:35:44 AM

buccaneerNW:
 "The onus is not on me."

Russell's teapot: if one were to assert that a teapot is orbiting the sun, it cannot be disproven. It is ridiculous to assume that something is true because you lack evidence of its falsehood.

Onus is indeed on you to prove your claim, science man.

Runole

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#44 : September 13, 2013, 08:42:12 AM

Scientific consensus does not equate to good science. I see that you like to throw out the 97% lie of all scientist. Well...it is based on a lie, as is all of the global warming scam. If you care to educate yourself, please read this article: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/14/fuzzy-math-in-a-new-soon-to-be-published-paper-john-cook-claims-consensus-on-32-6-of-scientific-papers-that-endorse-agw/
or for that matter, any of the articles here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=97%25
Also...none of the "deniers" has to prove anything. That is up to the so-called scientist to prove their theory. And so far...they haven't. In fact mother nature herself has disproved the theory pretty well over the past 16 years with no measurable warming, and in fact, cooling recently, even though the supposed climate driver "C02" has continued to rise. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. All this thing is a money grab. Always was, always has been.
mwk

Correct...  Perhaps it is a failure of education the last 30 years as well as all the fantasy/mumbo jumbo shows has led to a large portion of the public not having the slightest understanding of Scientific methodology.    Scientific fact only occurs when there can be no evidence EVER presented that is in conflict with that fact    Scientific fact is not produced by a consensus opinion or majority vote.

Correct again on the money grab as one that has worked with scientific research and US grant money...  It is a way of survival of the researcher. 

All about Money....  Bad cholesterol-   Cholesterol that your body needs every day to survive...   Good Cholesterol-  Cholesterol the body never uses and is destroyed in the liver! :'(

Follow the money.....

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