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VinBucFan

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: September 24, 2013, 05:49:59 AM

Filthy, lying and clearly uneducated doctors have done it now . .

Places with higher gun ownership rates also have higher firearms-related deaths, a new study finds.

In the study, published Sept. 20 in the American Journal of Medicine, researchers analyzed gun ownership rates, crime rates and deaths from firearms across 27 developed countries around the world.

"The U.S. has the highest gun ownership rates and also has the highest rate of firearm-related deaths," said study co-author Dr. Sripal Bangalore, a cardiologist at the New York University School of Medicine
.

Despite the prevalence of high-profile mass shootings, such as the recent Navy shipyard shooting, where the attacker showed signs of mental illness, the prevalence of mental illness in a society is only weakly correlated with gun-related deaths.

Contentious issue

Gun rights advocates argue that having more guns in society makes people safer by deterring crime and allowing law-abiding citizens to defend themselves against would-be attackers. Gun control proponents argue that guns lead to more violence, not less.

Past studies have shown that gun owners are much likelier to be shot with their own weapons than they are to use it to thwart a crime. Other research has shown that gun laws are linked with lower rates of firearms deaths.

But teasing apart causal factors can be difficult: After all, more people may feel compelled to purchase a gun in a crime-ridden neighborhood, but that doesn't mean the guns themselves cause the violence. And states that pass gun control measures may simply have different cultures than those that enshrine gun rights in their laws.

Cross-country analysis

After several high profile shootings, such as the Newtown, Conn., school shootings, Bangalore and his colleagues wanted to see whether guns actually make people safer, or whether inadequately treated mental health issues played a role.

The team looked at the fraction of people who owned guns across 27 developed nations, including the United States, Switzerland, Finland, Australia and Japan.

Gun ownership was lowest in Japan and highest, by far, in the United States.

Gun ownership rates were strongly correlated with higher death rates from firearms.

In contrast, the incidence of major depression was only weakly linked to firearms-related deaths. (Data on other conditions such as schizophrenia were not widely available.)

And crime didn't seem to be correlated at all with gun ownership rates. That suggests purchasing a gun doesn't have an effect on overall crime rates, which include both violent and non-violent crimes.

"We can show that guns don't make a nation safer," Bangalore said.

The study "provides some very convincing evidence that firearms-related deaths are very strongly correlated with prevalence of guns," said Dr. Eric Fleegler, a health services researcher at Boston Children's Hospital, who was not involved in the study.

Causation difficult

Still, it's difficult to say that gun ownership actually causes more gun violence.

The current study lumped together suicides and homicides.

And countries are very different.

"There are many factors that could influence both gun ownership and homicide rates," said Dr. Michael Siegel, a community health researcher at Boston University School of Public Health, who has separately found that states with more guns have higher murder rates.

One clue for causality comes from Australia, where tighter restrictions on gun ownership were instituted in 1996 and gun-related deaths fell dramatically, Bangalore said.

But the only way to untangle the links between gun ownership and violence is to do studies that track both over time, and that research has been limited because the Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention and the National Institutes of Health don't fund gun violence research, Siegel said.


The interesting part to note is the LAST paragraph (in bold). Now, why do you think it is that CDC and NIH dont fund gun violence research?


"Since the 1990s, the powerful pro-gun NRA has targeted the heart of what most legislation is based on: studies about the effects of gun violence.
 Larry Pratt: 'We are on our own' Obamacare limits doctors' gun questions VA Tech survivor on gun violence meeting Giffords takes on NRA
Last year, the NRA used its influence in Florida to push through legislation that would punish doctors if they asked patients whether they owned a gun.
And buried inside President Barack Obama's signature health care legislation is a little-known provision that prevents the government and health insurers from asking about gun ownership.
The NRA says it is simply ensuring that taxpayer money isn't being used to promote a political agenda.
"If gun control groups ... (and) individuals want to further their research, we're not saying they shouldn't be able to do it," NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told CNN. "We're just saying they shouldn't be using public funds to do it."
But public health experts say it's all part of an attempt by the NRA-led pro-gun lobby to hamstring lawmakers.
"If a bunch of people do research and generate solid evidence that suggests firearms policy should be reformed and either firearms or people who used them should be regulated in new ways, (if I'm a gun-rights advocate,) I'm not going to like that," said Dr. Garen Wintemute, head of the violence prevention research program at the University of California at Davis.
"So, I'll simply prevent the evidence from being collected in the first place. It's a brilliant strategy, and (the gun lobby) succeeded."

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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VinBucFan

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#1 : September 24, 2013, 06:35:55 AM

http://www.amjmed.com/webfiles/images/journals/ajm/AJM12080.pdf

Next up from the AMJ, a shocking and controversial report entitled "Your More Likely to Get Bit By A Mosquito When There Are a Lot of Mosquito Around"    This on the heels of their recently highly controversial "You're More Likely to Catch Fish in the Ocean Than The Bathtub"

Ain't, logic fun . . .
: September 24, 2013, 06:50:21 AM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Bucfucious

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#2 : September 24, 2013, 09:19:26 AM

  "Past studies have shown that gun owners are much likelier to be shot with their own weapons than they are to use it to thwart a crime. Other research has shown that gun laws are linked with lower rates of firearms deaths."

"Research." Who did the research? Doesn't say. Who paid for the research? Doesn't say. Where was the research conducted? Doesn't say. How was the research conducted? Doesn't say. Just vague, generic, anonymous research. From somewhere. You can take their word for it.

  "The current study lumped together suicides and homicides."

Gotta get those numbers to say what you want. Surprised they actually admitted it, but most of the general public won't even notice.

olafberserker

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#3 : September 24, 2013, 09:23:41 AM

I thought we weren't discussing "gun deaths" ....

BucNY

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#4 : September 24, 2013, 09:34:09 AM

Why are you still arguing this. It's ridiculous. Measure one thing, when  a hundred, a thousand, or a million factors control the outcome is dumb and does nothing but waste time.

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Bucfucious

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#5 : September 24, 2013, 09:37:15 AM

It is an unfortunate facet of modern "research" that it tends to say whatever the people who paid for it want it to say. I once saw a study conclude that steroids had no effect on building muscle mass. It was a legitimate study. The participants didn't know if they were getting steroids or a placebo, and the people administering them didn't know either (double blind). Then all participants did the same amount of reps with the same amount of weight for the course of the study. By limiting the reps to the same for everyone, the advantage given by steroids was eliminated. The government got the results they wanted.

VinBucFan

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#6 : September 24, 2013, 10:49:08 AM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

olafberserker

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#7 : September 24, 2013, 11:06:41 AM

Why are you still arguing this. It's ridiculous.


Is there really any question why this person continues to argue this over and over again?

Bucfucious

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#8 : September 24, 2013, 11:23:57 AM

He's the sole person making the argument. Yes, he's making a fool of himself, but as long as he feels like the center of attention it's worth the humiliation to him. Try reexamining the situation from his point of view, the goal is not to present a logical, reasoned argument, the goal is to make yourself the center of attention.

Make more sense to you now?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

BucNY

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#9 : September 24, 2013, 11:52:57 AM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

That's a Red Herring, and not a very good one at that. The presence of a water makes you wet. The presence of a gun does not make you shot. 100% of the time I've stood in the rain, I got wet. 0% of the time I was standing in a room with a gun I've been shot.

I would like to see another study done on that same population where they don't count the number of guns that are present but maybe the number of violent felons that are present. Surely the authors aren't suggesting guns randomly go off on their own and shoot people so there must be more to it than just a gun being present.

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spartan

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#10 : September 24, 2013, 12:06:16 PM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

But can you show me a study that demonstrates less guns = less death?

VinBucFan

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#11 : September 24, 2013, 04:12:18 PM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

But can you show me a study that demonstrates less guns = less death?

you mean if we limited guns less people will get struck by lightning?  no, I am sorry .... limiting access to guns doesn't change weather

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

VinBucFan

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#12 : September 24, 2013, 04:15:28 PM

By the way, as crazy as this seems, when I walked home tonight I bumped into someone on a very crowded street but didn't walk into someone when I was on the street alone.   How could that possibly be ... according to "gun logic" that's unpossible.  Those dumb azz doctors just don't get it .. it is "unpossible" that 300 million guns might create a Public Health issue.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

spartan

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#13 : September 24, 2013, 09:56:44 PM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

But can you show me a study that demonstrates less guns = less death?

you mean if we limited guns less people will get struck by lightning?  no, I am sorry .... limiting access to guns doesn't change weather

No, but it may change the number of people who die, otherwise whats the point?

VinBucFan

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#14 : September 24, 2013, 10:01:21 PM

Damn doctors. Can't trust them, can't shoot them (even with millions if guns lying around)

Hey, it's raining outside but I am not taking an umbrella because my gun logic tells me more rain drops does NOT mean a greater chance if getting wet.

Lol

But can you show me a study that demonstrates less guns = less death?

you mean if we limited guns less people will get struck by lightning?  no, I am sorry .... limiting access to guns doesn't change weather

No, but it may change the number of people who die, otherwise whats the point?

I was joking with you but of course. People are killed and injured by guns both by accident and intentional act . . . easy access to guns plays a role, that is the point of the study . . . guns are a Public Health problem in this country. 

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center
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