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MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #15 : December 13, 2013, 12:14:56 PM »

I have my reasons for my belief that Bowden > Saban.

Basically, the big ones are:
1) I'm an FSU fan, and we make up the vast majority of a small minority of CFB fans who still believe this
FIFY

But I'll humor you
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1) Bobby transformed an obscure football program into a perennial powerhouse. Saban coached schools who were already distinguished football schools. Personally, I think someone like Saban could walk into Ohio University and turn that into a powerhouse, but he won't as he is only interested in the big boys with the big money.
Saban made Toledo a conference champion before he went to MSU.
He won a championship at LSU, who hadn't won one since the 50's.
According to this board, when Saban took the Bama job, they were "irrelevant". They've now won 3 of the last 4, which is remarkable in any era, and unheard of in the BCS era.

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2) The Top 5 streak that FSU had under Bobby that encompassed two decades. Saban can't commit to a team longer than 5-7 years so I don't see that happening.
Did they really finish in the top 5 for 20 years straight, or do you mean something like '89-2000? Were none of those wins vacated? Regardless, if true, it's quite a remarkable feat, but these guys are in the business of winning championships, not finishing top 5. Bobby will tell you himself..... I'd refer you to his comments regarding not wanting to join the SEC, because it would be too difficult to win MNCs there.

Also, you shouldn't knock Saban for taking better jobs throughout his career. That's a silly thing to do, and your own Saint Bobby wanted to leave FSU for Bama himself at one time. Unfortunately for him (and maybe Bama), they didn't want him.

Bobby also staying in the game for so damn long also tarnished his legacy. As he faded into senility, FSU regressed. They're finally where they should be, thanks to a Saban guy.
« : December 13, 2013, 12:18:00 PM MrFreakinMiyagi »

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #16 : December 13, 2013, 12:24:46 PM »

Could someone explain the logic behind believing that a coach doing well for a long time at one place makes him better at coaching than one that does well for multiple teams?

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

McBarron

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« #17 : December 13, 2013, 01:16:48 PM »

I don't have enough in my arsenal to argue back as I have the utmost respect for Saban. Who doesn't?

My thing is this: Why can't coaches of his caliber walk into a big school with a shltty football program and turn that shlt into gold? That's what Bobby did and in doing so he actually changed the game of college football immensely, ESPECIALLY in the state of Florida. Sure, he may have considered Bama (who the hell wouldn't?), but he stayed a Nole until, well, he was senile (hate to say it, but it is pretty true).

Saban needs to take his ass to OhioU and turn that **CENSORED** around so that he can turn tOSU into his **CENSORED** as the HC of the OhioU Bobcats. He's the only coach today that could do some shlt like that.


MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #18 : December 13, 2013, 01:39:49 PM »

I don't have enough in my arsenal to argue back as I have the utmost respect for Saban. Who doesn't?

My thing is this: Why can't coaches of his caliber walk into a big school with a shltty football program and turn that shlt into gold? That's what Bobby did and in doing so he actually changed the game of college football immensely, ESPECIALLY in the state of Florida.
Quite an accomplishment, and not to take anything away from it, but it was much easier to do in the 80's than it would be in the BCS era.

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Saban needs to take his ass to OhioU and turn that **CENSORED** around so that he can turn tOSU into his **CENSORED** as the HC of the OhioU Bobcats. He's the only coach today that could do some shlt like that.
That would be something, but it would be very difficult to land recruits for being known as:
1) a liar
2) the bat**CENSORED** crazy dude that left Bama, and passed up 10 mil per year at Texas to coach at Ohio.


Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

McBarron

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« #19 : December 13, 2013, 04:03:35 PM »

That would be something, but it would be very difficult to land recruits for being known as:
1) a liar
2) the bat**CENSORED** crazy dude that left Bama, and passed up 10 mil per year at Texas to coach at Ohio.

He'd be poaching the shlt outta OSU recruits. You know that.

But, since he did coach at UA and LSU, it would be insane to leave for a MAC school (or whatever OhioU plays in). I get that.....although, I meant that if Ohio was his FIRST school as HC.......


McBarron

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« #20 : December 13, 2013, 04:06:23 PM »

Saban is a great college coach and I don't know who I would say is the best of all time, but those really are good points McBarron.

You're a Bull so you can appreciate a coach coming in and building a solid program from scratch. That's basically what Bobby did.

Saban did not. But, one must measure that when calling someone the greatest or best coach of all time. That's why I give the nod (albeit, a homer nod) to Bobby.


MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #21 : December 13, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »

Saban can't commit to a team longer than 5-7years so I don't see that happening.
So much for that.

He's staying at Bama  ;D


Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #22 : December 13, 2013, 11:24:48 PM »

Saban is a great college coach and I don't know who I would say is the best of all time, but those really are good points McBarron.

You're a Bull so you can appreciate a coach coming in and building a solid program from scratch. That's basically what Bobby did.
Bobby didn't build FSU from scratch. Their first season was 1947. LOL
FSU had the first undefeated CFB team in the history of the state in 1950 (Prior to Saban, LSU's most recent title was in the 50's, just sayin')

They had experienced moderate success at times, before Bowden. They might have sucked for a while just prior to his arrival, but he what he did, and what Leavitt did aren't even comparable on any level.

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Saban did not.
Well, neither did Bobby......

Guess I already blew this out of the water, but I ain't stopping yet. Yay for you.

Coaches move on to better programs, and more money. That's what they do. Bowden wanted to do it at Bama, but never got the offer.

Bowden took a program that had enjoyed moderate success at times, and brought them to a whole new level. Comparing what Saban did at LSU (best season was in the 50's, had been well over a decade since a conference title) to what Bobby did at FSU makes much more sense than a Leavitt/Bowden comparison. Saban might have left LSU, but his impact hasn't.

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But, one must measure that when calling someone the greatest or best coach of all time.
You mean use your flawed logic, and overlook.... oh.... I don't know.... Championships??

I'll ask again..... Is it possible for Saban to do anything to pass Bobby in your eyes, or would he had to have stayed at Toledo, and had similar success to Bowden at FSU?


Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Runole

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« #23 : December 13, 2013, 11:51:38 PM »

A little note about when Bobby almost became Alabama's head coach..

It was always known that Bobby wanted to go to Bama.  This was right at the start of the Dynasty years.  Bobby went to Tuscaloosa to take the job, but when he arrived he found out that it was actually an interview.  He said, 'I'm not here to be interviewed, either the job's mine or it's not'... paraphrasing.
All those guys knew him and he had achieved a good degree of success already at FSU, so he was insulted to be expected to be interviewed for the job.



How eerily familiar the same tune of arrogance of the SEC and their approach not only for head coaches but also for membership to the SEC.   Perfect example how the SEC presentation went to FSU in the late 80's when they were arguably one of the two best teams in CFB the other being Miami.  FSU was given respect from the ACC and was largely given none by the SEC so they decided to give a listen to the ACC's offer which actually was a better than the SEC's.    SEC  got wind of this and the fear of getting exposed by the ACC's better offer decided to hold a vote and claim FSU was never seriously considered.


Moral of the story  Unless you are a Arse kisser and willing to bend over the SEC won't consider you for membership.  Like Bowden Like FSU....   Saban is a great coach but he does tend to lie too much.


Never thought he would leave Alabama as I stated earlier.  Looks like Brown leaving Texas is still up in the air despite the guarantees by many of the talking heads.

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #24 : December 14, 2013, 01:07:05 AM »

A little note about when Bobby almost became Alabama's head coach..

It was always known that Bobby wanted to go to Bama.  This was right at the start of the Dynasty years.  Bobby went to Tuscaloosa to take the job, but when he arrived he found out that it was actually an interview.  He said, 'I'm not here to be interviewed, either the job's mine or it's not'... paraphrasing.
All those guys knew him and he had achieved a good degree of success already at FSU, so he was insulted to be expected to be interviewed for the job.

How eerily familiar the same tune of arrogance of the SEC and their approach not only for head coaches but also for membership to the SEC.
So...... Bowden went in expecting the job to be handed to him without discussion, and got pissy when it wasn't..... Yet, it was the Bama committee assigned to interview and hire a coach that was arrogant? HOL-E-**CENSORED**

Do you know the definition of "arrogance"?

I have officially heard it all from you.
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Perfect example how the SEC presentation went to FSU in the late 80's when they were arguably one of the two best teams in CFB the other being Miami.  FSU was given respect from the ACC and was largely given none by the SEC so they decided to give a listen to the ACC's offer which actually was a better than the SEC's.    SEC  got wind of this and the fear of getting exposed by the ACC's better offer decided to hold a vote and claim FSU was never seriously considered.
Yet they were seriously considered, and would have been offered. FSU just took the **CENSORED** route.


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Moral of the story  Unless you are a Arse kisser and willing to bend over the SEC won't consider you for membership.  Like Bowden Like FSU....
So, you can just settle for inferiority. Like joining a **CENSORED**ty football conference, and tarnishing your legacy for doing so.

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Saban is a great coach
The best since Bryant, and maybe better.
Quote
but he does tend to lie too much.
Nobody cares.


Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Runole

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« #25 : December 14, 2013, 09:17:11 AM »

A little note about when Bobby almost became Alabama's head coach..

It was always known that Bobby wanted to go to Bama.  This was right at the start of the Dynasty years.  Bobby went to Tuscaloosa to take the job, but when he arrived he found out that it was actually an interview.  He said, 'I'm not here to be interviewed, either the job's mine or it's not'... paraphrasing.
All those guys knew him and he had achieved a good degree of success already at FSU, so he was insulted to be expected to be interviewed for the job.

How eerily familiar the same tune of arrogance of the SEC and their approach not only for head coaches but also for membership to the SEC.
So...... Bowden went in expecting the job to be handed to him without discussion, and got pissy when it wasn't..... Yet, it was the Bama committee assigned to interview and hire a coach that was arrogant? HOL-E-**CENSORED**

Do you know the definition of "arrogance"?

SO SABAN WOULD HAVE TO INTERVIEW FOR AS JOB AT TEXAS?    I can see logic and reasoning are not your strongest suit.

I have officially heard it all from you.
Quote
Perfect example how the SEC presentation went to FSU in the late 80's when they were arguably one of the two best teams in CFB the other being Miami.  FSU was given respect from the ACC and was largely given none by the SEC so they decided to give a listen to the ACC's offer which actually was a better than the SEC's.    SEC  got wind of this and the fear of getting exposed by the ACC's better offer decided to hold a vote and claim FSU was never seriously considered.
Yet they were seriously considered, and would have been offered. FSU just took the **CENSORED** route.

If serious means the SEC wanted FSU to be on its knees begging for membership that might be correct.  You don't have to kiss arse if you are one of the best two teams in the country and most desirable to any conference.  Anyone with an ounce of intelligence looks around and finds the best deal.  The SEC blew it because of their stupid arrogance and unwillingness to offer a better deal.

FSU would have joined the SEC in a heart beat had the SEC not been such arrogant a-holes.    In retrospect while many FSU fans still disagree I believe FSU made the best choice for the school all things considered for the school and all its athletic programs not just football.  As long as they win they will get to the championship which of course is proven once again.  Tough break on that FG return by Auburn! LOL
 :P Will some Bama fan poison some more trees?


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Moral of the story  Unless you are a Arse kisser and willing to bend over the SEC won't consider you for membership.  Like Bowden Like FSU....
So, you can just settle for inferiority. Like joining a **CENSORED**ty football conference, and tarnishing your legacy for doing so.


FSU has nothing to feel inferior about when it comes to anything especially from a conference that embraces the South and its sordid history too much. 
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Saban is a great coach
The best since Bryant, and maybe better.
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but he does tend to lie too much.

nobody cares,,,,

Only those that value integrity honesty decency and ethics care.


Hey Freak? pardon me, do you have a second, I'd like to run something by you.

 :D ;D :P
« : December 14, 2013, 09:57:16 AM Runole »

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #26 : December 14, 2013, 10:22:37 AM »

SO SABAN WOULD HAVE TO INTERVIEW FOR AS JOB AT TEXAS?    I can see logic and reasoning are not your strongest suit.
1987 Bobby Bowden<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 2013 Nick Saban
And it's not close. Was Bowden is the conversation as best EVER at the time? Absolutely not. Currently Saban certainly is.

What was that about logic and reasoning again?


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If serious means the SEC wanted FSU to be on its knees begging for membership that might be correct.
hyperbole much?
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The SEC blew it because of their stupid arrogance and unwillingness to offer a better deal.
The SEC didn't "blow" anything. It's by far the best conference with the best competition. Hence why FSU didn't join. Ask Bobby.

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FSU would have joined the SEC in a heart beat had the SEC not been such arrogant a-holes.
Bobby disagrees.
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   In retrospect while many FSU fans still disagree I believe FSU made the best choice for the school all things considered for the school and all its athletic programs not just football.
Which makes sense, because you are disingenuous, and ripe with intellectual dishonesty.
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As long as they win they will get to the championship which of course is proven once again.
Just like Bobby planned, when they joined. Easy road= more MNCs.

Yet, Saban has twice as many. Thanks for proving my point for me.


Quote
Moral of the story  Unless you are a Arse kisser and willing to bend over the SEC won't consider you for membership.  Like Bowden Like FSU....
So, you can just settle for inferiority. Like joining a **CENSORED**ty football conference, and tarnishing your legacy for doing so.


Quote
FSU has nothing to feel inferior about when it comes to anything especially from a conference that embraces the South and its sordid history too much. 
Yes they do. They joined a weaker conference, because they were afraid of the competition in the SEC. I also like your attempt at deflection.
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Saban is a great coach
The best since Bryant, and maybe better.
Quote
but he does tend to lie too much.

nobody cares,,,,

Only those that value integrity honesty decency and ethics care.
[/b]

So, nobody involved in FSU athletics, and certainly not someone as blatantly disingenuous as you.

There isn't a CFB program in the country that wouldn't jump at the opportunity to have Saban be their head coach right now. These guys are in the business of winning, not telling the truth to reporters that badger the **CENSORED** out of them.

I'd quit dipping from the Updyke fountain. That was 3 years ago.

You do realize that following the Iron Bowl this year, one Bama fan murdered another for not being angry enough, right?
« : December 14, 2013, 10:31:39 AM MrFreakinMiyagi »

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Biggs3535

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« #27 : December 14, 2013, 12:08:32 PM »

Miyagi's sig is hilarious.  LOLZ @ the 'lil slugger.


Runole

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« #28 : December 14, 2013, 02:16:10 PM »

Florida State has a winning record vs the SEC since 1980 (28-26-2)   Auburn and LSU dropped FSU from their schedules in the 90's   Alabama has never agreed to play FSU at home.  Talk about chicken Sheet!

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #29 : December 14, 2013, 03:20:56 PM »

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I like to win games, and I can’t think of a tougher place to do that than the SEC.
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Most conferences have got two really strong programs, but top to bottom there isn’t one close to the SEC.
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My message would be stay in the ACC. Do you want to win a National Championship at Florida State?  You’ve got a better chance in the ACC than you have in the Big 12, or even the SEC.
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'Well, gosh, they’re much stronger in those conferences.’  Yeah!  They beat up on each other and you can’t hardly get there.  You know what?  Florida State, wait ‘til you get good enough to rule the ACC then you start looking for someplace to jump.  But my opinion?  They should stay right where they are.
Yet he only won 2 coaching in the ACC until he was 118 years old.

Maybe, we're actually giving him more credit than he deserves. 2 MNCs playing in a conference that you have locked up 90% of the time before the season starts?? One could argue that he underachieved.

Maybe that's why the only people who put him above Bryant or now Saban are Nole fans.


Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM
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