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CalcuttaRain

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« : December 17, 2013, 11:53:13 AM »

Just like New York . . . . frisk for what? Oh . . . guns.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/17/21864122-small-world-of-murder-as-homicides-drop-chicago-police-focus-on-social-networks-of-gangs?lite

Is it profiling to assume that known gang members carry guns?

"Less than two weeks later, those steps led to the arrest of one of the Rockwell Boys for the shooting. It wasn’t a kid from the original four, but an associate police found through the same network. At the same time, in the days the case was open, McNaughton’s cops were all over the predicted scenes. They made a dozen more arrests than in the same period the year before, catching one of the Rockwell Boys with a gun a block from where they expected the next spree — a shootout that McNaughton says never did happen."

Pre-crime intervention clashes with civil liberties, but works , , , because it tends to keep guns off the street, whether by confiscation of fear of confiscation ..  . the problem is the civil liberties issue and the manpower required

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dalbuc

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« #1 : December 17, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »

Except this isn't so much a stop and frisk as it is a statistical analysis of social networks. The simple notion that the are not a lot of murders in most towns so you focus on those violent lead dogs and tap them down. NOLA knows this phenomenon because after a decade of hyper violence they essentially burned up the cohort of young violent offenders because they were all either dead or in jail and the murder rate dropped -- something a professor at LSU predicted would happens years before the drop. The predictive look at those who might be the next victim is a cool feature of the system since retaliation, murder chains, are also known phenomenon among criminologists

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

CalcuttaRain

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« #2 : December 17, 2013, 05:49:27 PM »

Except this isn't so much a stop and frisk as it is a statistical analysis of social networks. The simple notion that the are not a lot of murders in most towns so you focus on those violent lead dogs and tap them down. NOLA knows this phenomenon because after a decade of hyper violence they essentially burned up the cohort of young violent offenders because they were all either dead or in jail and the murder rate dropped -- something a professor at LSU predicted would happens years before the drop. The predictive look at those who might be the next victim is a cool feature of the system since retaliation, murder chains, are also known phenomenon among criminologists

They are using data but in connection with stop and frisk, it's just that the data side is highlighted for its "pre-crime" feel.

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spartan

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« #3 : December 17, 2013, 07:59:35 PM »

Despite your snarky comments Vin I am on board with you on this one. You can't arbitrarily harass people but given a cause to stop someone, I am so on board with stop and frisk. The "cause" however is the sticky point isn't it? There needs to be rules but I do not agree with it being banned completely. I am also on board with swamping crime laden neighborhoods with extra cops. It doesn't have to be "the hood" either, because quite often sh*t A frequently goes from neighborhood B to neighborhood C to commit crime. Now that also runs the risk of racial profiling, so it is a tender subject. Needs a balance.

Biggs3535

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« #4 : December 18, 2013, 09:07:29 AM »

Why would there be a need to frisk anybody in Chicago?  They have some of the strictest gun laws in the country. 


CalcuttaRain

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« #5 : December 18, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »

Why would there be a need to frisk anybody in Chicago?  They have some of the strictest gun laws in the country   . . . and everyone know Chicago is the first city in the world enclosed in a glass bubble

oh the stupidity . . .  glass bubble . . .  pfft


way to add your usual NOTHING to the conversation scarecrow

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CalcuttaRain

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« #6 : December 18, 2013, 09:40:51 AM »

Despite your snarky comments Vin I am on board with you on this one. You can't arbitrarily harass people but given a cause to stop someone, I am so on board with stop and frisk. The "cause" however is the sticky point isn't it? There needs to be rules but I do not agree with it being banned completely. I am also on board with swamping crime laden neighborhoods with extra cops. It doesn't have to be "the hood" either, because quite often sh*t A frequently goes from neighborhood B to neighborhood C to commit crime. Now that also runs the risk of racial profiling, so it is a tender subject. Needs a balance.

agreed that it is a tough balance, but it works . . . profiling works . . .disarming people works . .  but

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Biggs3535

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« #7 : December 18, 2013, 10:04:24 AM »

disarming people works

Only if you live in a bubble, right Counselor?


CalcuttaRain

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« #8 : December 18, 2013, 10:24:12 AM »

disarming people works

Only if you live in a bubble, right Counselor?

I guess you couldn't read the actual article scarecrow? Guess you can't read many articles about the same program in NYC? lol

Here, just so you don't have to run and find an adult to explain things to you, let me try (I am out of crayons, sorry) to point out what should be the OBVIOUS disconnect between your two posts in this thread.  Ready, here we go:

1. You suggested that city gun laws should be the solution when OBVIOUSLY anyone can bring a gun in from outside the city

2. Stop & Frisk actually REMOVES guns from the street. That is the point. Less guns, less gun violence (see the word "less" scarecrow?)

3. Comparing the two makes no sense because you don't need Stop & Frisk to be PERFECT to reduce gun violence (see Chicago, MYC and more). Conversely, you would need a bubble (i.e., a PERFECT defense) to impact gun violence under the "but they have the toughest gun laws" system, which is why your first comment is STUPID.

See . . . its not that hard.

Scarecrow, just so you know . . . the people who create talking point arguments like the nonsensical one you keep repeating ("Chicago has the toughest guns laws") are counting on people who do not (or cannot) think.



way to represent the niche.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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Bucfucious

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« #9 : December 18, 2013, 10:35:51 AM »

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. More guns in the right hands also decreases gun violence. Taking away everyone's rights and forcing them to live under government occupation would also decrease gun violence.

All been covered a thousand times, someone just needs attention. Stop giving it to him.


CalcuttaRain

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« #10 : December 18, 2013, 10:39:29 AM »

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. More guns in the right hands also decreases gun violence. Taking away everyone's rights and forcing them to live under government occupation would also decrease gun violence.

All been covered a thousand times, someone just needs attention. Stop giving it to him.

and yet here you are CHOOSING to come into this thread . . .


Stop & Frisk = "Taking away everyone's rights and forcing them to live under government occupation"

I guess you've given up on less guns does NOT equal less gun violence.  Buggsy would say "surrender noted" . . . but then again he fills the niche   :-[

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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CalcuttaRain

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« #11 : December 18, 2013, 10:41:16 AM »

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence.

Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet.

lmao  -- -  frame it
« : December 18, 2013, 11:06:00 AM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dalbuc

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« #12 : December 18, 2013, 11:13:30 AM »

The insane thing is that the article says nothing really about taking away guns or gun control at all. It is about controlling and monitoring bad people. At the heart of it is is about doing three things

1. Identifying who your potential or actual killers are. There are a lot of criminals but not many who have or might pull the trigger.  This is sort of the opposite of the broken window theory that says controlling the small crimes reduces the big crimes. This approach focuses on the big criminals and not on all the criminals.
2. Understanding their network of allies and rivals. Who might have killed them and who might get killed in retaliation.
3. The stop and frisk is more stop and question because the stream of info to feed the first two points is pretty massive and the need for updates is constant.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

CalcuttaRain

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« #13 : December 18, 2013, 11:17:39 AM »

The insane thing is that the article says nothing really about taking away guns or gun control at all. .

"Less than two weeks later, those steps led to the arrest of one of the Rockwell Boys for the shooting. It wasn’t a kid from the original four, but an associate police found through the same network. At the same time, in the days the case was open, McNaughton’s cops were all over the predicted scenes. They made a dozen more arrests than in the same period the year before, catching one of the Rockwell Boys with a gun a block from where they expected the next spree — a shootout that McNaughton says never did happen."

That is a Stop & Frisk and the reason that they are having success in Chicago is not just that they are using data to predict a future crime and then flooding the potential scene -- although that is a part, the presence helps -- it is that they are using Stop & Frisk.  Look again where the new police chief came from. It's discussed in the article:

“Chicago is the new New York when it comes to stop-and-frisk,” said Harvey Grossman, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union in Illinois.

There's plenty more info available. From a simple Google search:


How stop and frisk works in Chicago | Bleader | Chicago Reader

www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/.../how-stop-and-frisk-works-in-chicag...‎


Aug 26, 2013 - Police practices in Chicago may be less flawed than New York's, but they cause the same tensions between public safety and personal liberty.

Poor data keep Chicago's stop and frisk hidden from scrutiny | WBEZ ...

www.wbez.org/.../poor-data-keeps-chicagos-stop-and-frisk-hidden-scruti...‎

Sep 12, 2013 - In Chicago, stop and frisk is alive and well – but relatively unchecked. Encounters with Chicago police officers often begin with a little-known ...

Chicago, New York officers spar over stop-and-frisk policy - CNN.com

www.cnn.com/2013/08/14/us/new-york-chicago-stop-frisk‎

Aug 14, 2013 - Police departments in Chicago and New York are trading barbs after a federal judge ruled that New York City's stop-and-frisk policy was ...

Stop and frisk in Chicago - Interesting Chicago - ChicagoNow

www.chicagonow.com/interesting-chicago/.../stop-and-frisk-in-chicago/‎





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« : December 18, 2013, 11:22:38 AM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Bucfucious

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« #14 : December 18, 2013, 11:34:28 AM »

The quote in its entirety:
 "I conveniently ignored it because you are an idiot, and a dishonest one at that. Gun violence has declined sharply over the last two decades. Violence overall has declined over the last two decades. As a percentage of the whole, gun violence has remained the same, but let's be absolutely clear here: gun violence has declined dramatically. There is no getting around that. During that same period, gun ownership increased a lot. The percentage of households with guns did not rise, nor would one expect it to in an increasingly urban population. The number of guns went up though. It went up a lot.

So, to review: amount of gun violence = way down, amount of guns = way up. Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet."
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