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spartan

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« #45 : December 19, 2013, 08:41:02 AM »

Vin, therd is no false dichotomy. That is the only solution,which is true, everything else is somewhere in between which you indicate. Accepting that acknowledges the situation and any thoughts can grow from there. Now, what I disagree with is your proposals for the in between. For example, you want to ban "assault rifles". In 2009 there were 9k murders, 348 were committed with rifles. Not "assault rifles" but any kind of rifle. So, I would take a guess the number of deaths would be somewhere in the range of 100-200. Explain to me how that is a serious attempt at solving any kind of gun violence problem?

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« #46 : December 19, 2013, 09:18:36 AM »

From a report by the CDC, prepared at Obama's behest:

Handguns are the problem. Despite being outnumbered by long guns, “Handguns are used in more than 87 percent of violent crimes,” the report notes. In 2011, “handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents.” Why do criminals prefer handguns? One reason, according to surveys of felons, is that they’re “easily concealable.”

Mass shootings aren’t the problem. “The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths,” says the report. “Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” Compare that with the 335,000 gun deaths between 2000 and 2010 alone.

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« #47 : December 19, 2013, 12:20:31 PM »

Vin, therd is no false dichotomy. That is the only solution,which is true, everything else is somewhere in between which you indicate. Accepting that acknowledges the situation and any thoughts can grow from there. Now, what I disagree with is your proposals for the in between. For example, you want to ban "assault rifles". In 2009 there were 9k murders, 348 were committed with rifles. Not "assault rifles" but any kind of rifle. So, I would take a guess the number of deaths would be somewhere in the range of 100-200. Explain to me how that is a serious attempt at solving any kind of gun violence problem?

what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.  For goodness sake, you are not even for universal background check, right?  You want there to be an open private market, without background check, so you can easily buy your wife a Christmas present, as I recall. Am I missing something?

I have said repeatedly that assault rifles are a symbol and also the weapon of choice by mass murders . .  which is significant because they have  basically ZERO social utility, they are basically entertainment. Your entertainment is not worth . . Denver, Santa Monica, Sandy Hook, Atlanta (almost), LA Airport.  Go get entertained in a controlled environment with a special permit . . rather than the current environment which is that I can be a felon and buy an AR without a background check stopping me so that I can entertain myself by killing a bunch of people.

VinBucFan

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« #48 : December 19, 2013, 12:22:53 PM »

From a report by the CDC, prepared at Obama's behest:

Handguns are the problem. Despite being outnumbered by long guns, “Handguns are used in more than 87 percent of violent crimes,” the report notes. In 2011, “handguns comprised 72.5 percent of the firearms used in murder and non-negligent manslaughter incidents.” Why do criminals prefer handguns? One reason, according to surveys of felons, is that they’re “easily concealable.”

Mass shootings aren’t the problem. “The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths,” says the report. “Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” Compare that with the 335,000 gun deaths between 2000 and 2010 alone.

which day is it? which version of Illuminator am I dealing with?  The honest one or the "inbred bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet"  ;)

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. .

. Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet."

Bucfucious

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« #49 : December 19, 2013, 12:40:13 PM »

I was addressing Spartan. When I post idiotic nonsense, that would be directed towards you. It's more than you're worthy of. Here:

http://gizmodo.com/5397912/metalstorm-3gl-grenade-launcher-should-be-renamed-to-you+gonna+get+a+shtstorm+of+metal-enemy-dude


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« #50 : December 19, 2013, 12:43:58 PM »

Lmao! Vin The Crusader, out to stop that two tenths of a percent, while ignoring the seventy two percent. Dance for us some more, crusader boy.

spartan

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« #51 : December 19, 2013, 12:57:57 PM »


what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.  For goodness sake, you are not even for universal background check, right?  You want there to be an open private market, without background check, so you can easily buy your wife a Christmas present, as I recall. Am I missing something?

I have said repeatedly that assault rifles are a symbol and also the weapon of choice by mass murders . .  which is significant because they have  basically ZERO social utility, they are basically entertainment. Your entertainment is not worth . . Denver, Santa Monica, Sandy Hook, Atlanta (almost), LA Airport.  Go get entertained in a controlled environment with a special permit . . rather than the current environment which is that I can be a felon and buy an AR without a background check stopping me so that I can entertain myself by killing a bunch of people.

This here is why you can get no-one to take your side Vin. It also explains gun control gains little traction.

1. You make sh*t up.
2. Your solutions don't address the problem you are allegedly attempting to solve.

Number 1 pisses people off and makes them less likely to agree with you on anything, and number 2 kills your credibility. If and when you do come up with anything that even resembles sensible people are too busy rolling their eyeballs to actually listen.

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« #52 : December 19, 2013, 02:56:35 PM »


what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.  For goodness sake, you are not even for universal background check, right?  You want there to be an open private market, without background check, so you can easily buy your wife a Christmas present, as I recall. Am I missing something?

I have said repeatedly that assault rifles are a symbol and also the weapon of choice by mass murders . .  which is significant because they have  basically ZERO social utility, they are basically entertainment. Your entertainment is not worth . . Denver, Santa Monica, Sandy Hook, Atlanta (almost), LA Airport.  Go get entertained in a controlled environment with a special permit . . rather than the current environment which is that I can be a felon and buy an AR without a background check stopping me so that I can entertain myself by killing a bunch of people.

This here is why you can get no-one to take your side Vin. It also explains gun control gains little traction.

1. You make sh*t up.
2. Your solutions don't address the problem you are allegedly attempting to solve.

Number 1 pisses people off and makes them less likely to agree with you on anything, and number 2 kills your credibility. If and when you do come up with anything that even resembles sensible people are too busy rolling their eyeballs to actually listen.

I guess you will tell me what I made up?

By the way, your #1 and #2 are actually #2 and #3.  Here's the REAL list you meant to put down:

1. FEAR
2.You make sh*t up.
3. Your solutions don't address the problem you are allegedly attempting to solve.

There are not solution only reasonable measure to reduce gun violence BUT a person who refuses all proposed "solutions has no right to complain about the solutions others offer

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« #53 : December 19, 2013, 02:59:15 PM »

I was addressing Spartan. When I post idiotic nonsense, that would be directed towards you.

You mean like this kind of idiotic nonsense (some would "dishonesty"):

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. .

. Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet."


or did you mean this "idiotic nonsense" (all would say "dishonesty"):

The flaw in your argument is the assumption that "less guns in the wrong hands" is synonymous with "less guns."


ROFLMAO
« : December 19, 2013, 03:00:47 PM VinBucFan »

Bucfucious

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« #54 : December 19, 2013, 03:08:00 PM »

FACT CHECK
A study in dishonesty

Guns Acquired Without Background Checks
Posted on March 21, 2013

The Line: 40 percent of guns are purchased without a background check.
The Party: Democratic gun-control advocates
Editor’s note: This is one of an occasional series called “Party Lines” that will highlight misleading talking points by both parties.
After the December mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., several Democrats advocating for stricter gun-control laws — including a law requiring universal background checks for gun purchases — took to using this talking point to support their case. In a Jan. 16 speech on gun violence, President Barack Obama, for example, claimed that “as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check.” The president’s gun-control plan, “Now Is The Time,” also says that “studies estimate that nearly 40 percent of all gun sales are made by private sellers who are exempt from this requirement.”
But that figure is based on an analysis of a nearly two-decade-old survey of less than 300 people that essentially asked participants whether they thought the guns they had acquired — and not necessarily purchased — came from a federally licensed dealer. And one of the authors of the report often cited as a source for the claim — Philip Cook of Duke University — told our friends at Politifact.com that he has “no idea” whether the “very old number” applies today or not. Even Vice President Joe Biden acknowledged that the statistic may not be accurate in a speech at a mayoral conference on Jan. 17. Biden prefaced his claim that “about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so outside the … background check system” by saying that “because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we can’t say with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct.”
The basis for the claim is a 1997 report from professors Cook and Jens Ludwig for the National Institute of Justice. The authors concluded that “approximately 60 percent of gun acquisitions involved [federally licensed firearms dealers] and hence were subject to Federal regulations on such matters as out-of-State sales, criminal history checks, and record keeping.” They similarly concluded in a more detailed report published earlier that year that “approximately 60 to 70 percent of gun acquisitions occur in the primary market” from a licensed dealer.
Both of those statements were based on a single 1994 telephone survey on private gun ownership conducted by the Police Foundation and funded by the Justice Department. The survey asked the 251 participants who had acquired guns in the previous two years, “Was the person you acquired this gun from a licensed firearm dealer?” The answer choices were “yes,” “probably was/think so,” “probably not,” “no/definitely not,” “don’t know” and refuse to report. Cook and Ludwig found that 64.3 percent of those surveyed (Table 3.14) said that they had purchased or traded for a gun that came from a licensed dealer or “probably” did. The 40 percent figure comes from assuming that the remaining 35.7 percent — which has been rounded up — did not.
But with the exception of Biden, hardly anyone using the figure ever cautions that it may not be accurate, or, at the very least, that it was based on a survey of just a few hundred people in 1994, in which participants may have guessed whether they had acquired a gun that came from a licensed dealer. Instead, the number is quite often stated as fact when no one can say for certain.
– D’Angelo Gore
Below is a list of some Democrats who have used the 40 percent figure:
House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, Feb. 7: Individuals purchasing a firearm have the option of going to a federal firearms licensee (FFL) where a background check will be required, or purchasing a firearm from a private seller without undergoing a check. This alternative has allowed an estimated 6.6 million guns, or about 40 percent of all gun purchases, to be sold each year without the benefit of a federal background check. (Source: “It’s Time to Act” gun-violence prevention plan.)

Rep. John Conyers, Jan. 24: Non-licensed sellers do not have to perform checks, and it’s estimated that 40% of guns are sold by private sellers without checks. This is unacceptable, and is a major drive of gun violence in this country. (Source: Press release.)

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, Jan. 24: Today, about 40 percent of guns are purchased without a background check. (Source: MSNBC Transcript.)

Vice President Biden, Jan. 17: But because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we’re not — we can’t say with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct. But the consensus is about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so outside the NICS system, outside the background check system. (Source: Remarks at 81st Winter Meeting of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.)

President Obama, Jan. 16: But it’s hard to enforce that law when as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check. (Source: Remarks on gun violence.)

“Now Is The Time,” Jan. 16: Right now, federally licensed firearms dealers are required to run background checks on those buying guns, but studies estimate that nearly 40 percent of all gun sales are made by private sellers who are exempt from this requirement. (Source: President Obama’s gun-violence prevention plan.)

Sen. Jack Reed, Jan. 16: According to the Brady Campaign, about 40 percent of gun sales happen with no background checks. We can do better and must do better. (Source: Press release.)

Rep. Marcia Fudge, Jan. 14: Under current federal law, background checks are only required for gun sales at licensed dealers. According to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, approximately 6.6 million guns are sold each year in America by unlicensed private sellers. That translates to 40 percent of all U.S. gun sales. (Source: Congressional Record.)

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Jan. 14: When you got 40 percent of the guns [unaccounted for] that’s not a loophole; that’s an exemption. (Source: Politico article.)

Sens. Richard Blumenthal and Christopher Murphy, Jan. 11: Further, an estimated 40 percent of gun purchases are completed without any NICS background check due to loopholes that exempt private sales, including those at gun shows. (Source: Joint press release.)

Rep. David Cicilline, Dec. 19, 2012: The time for talking is over. Now we must act: banning assault weapons and high-capacity assault clips, fixing our criminal background check system, and closing loopholes that allow 40 percent of gun sales to go forward without background checks. (Source: Congressional Record.)

Sen. Chris **CENSORED**s, Dec. 19: Today, an estimated 40 percent of all gun sales–some six million weapons a year–are sold by unlicensed dealers who aren’t required to conduct any criminal background check under federal law. (Source: Congressional Record.)

Congressional Progressive Caucus: Whereas only federally licensed gun dealers are required by law to run background checks yet 40 percent of gun sales – six million guns a year – are sold on the secondary market through unlicensed dealers and are not subject to background checks, enabling the acquisition of guns by criminals, perpetrators of domestic violence, minors, substance abusers, and those with severe mental illnesses that are determined by a healthcare professional to be a danger to themselves or others. (Source: Resolution on Preventing Gun Violence website.)

Rep. Niki Tsongas: According to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an estimated 40% of gun sales in 2012 were made through private purchasers, and roughly 6.6 million guns were sold without any background check. (Source: Gun-violence prevention website.)

Rep. Frank Pallone: Because of a loophole, buyers may purchase firearms at gunshows, online or person-to-person from unlicensed gun sellers without going through background checks. Currently, nearly 6.5 million guns are sold each year in the U.S. by unlicensed “private sellers,” meaning between 40% and 50% of gun sales may take place with no background check for the buyer. (Source: Gun-violence prevention website.)

After the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., several Democrats advocating for stricter gun-control laws, took to using this talkingpoint to support their case. In a Jan. 16 speech on gun violence, President Barack Obama, for example, claimed that “as many as 40 percent of all gunpurchases are conducted without a background check.” But that statistic is based on a small survey of individuals conducted nearly 20-years-ago thatbasically asked participants whether they thought the guns they had acquired came from a licensed dealer or not. Even Vice President Joe Biden has
acknowledged that the statistic may not be accurate. On Jan. 17, Biden prefaced his claim that “about 40 percent of the people who buy guns today do so
outside the … background check system” by saying that “because of the lack of the ability of federal agencies to be able to even keep records, we can’t say
with absolute certainty what I’m about to say is correct.”
The root of the claim is a 1997 report from authors Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig for the National Institute of Justice. In that report, the authors concluded
that “approximately 60 percent of gun acquisitions involved [federally licensed firearms dealer] and hence were subject to Federal regulations on such
matters as out-of-State sales, criminal history checks, and recordkeeping.” The basis for that conclusion was a 1994 survey conducted by the Police Fundation
with funding from the Justice Deparmtent.

© Copyright 2013 FactCheck.org
« : December 19, 2013, 03:10:41 PM Bucfucious »

VinBucFan

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« #55 : December 19, 2013, 03:13:01 PM »

FACT CHECK
A study in dishonesty


Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. .

. Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet."

 :-[

Bucfucious

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« #56 : December 19, 2013, 03:26:55 PM »

Forgot the link:
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/guns-acquired-without-background-checks/

VinBucFan

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« #57 : December 19, 2013, 03:52:00 PM »

Forgot the link:
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/03/guns-acquired-without-background-checks/

nope, these are the links:

Less guns in the wrong hands decreases gun violence. .

. Anyone telling you that "MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE" is just flat out wrong, and likely an inbred, bucktoothed halfwit with penis breath and a mullet."
[/quote]

spartan

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« #58 : December 19, 2013, 04:55:59 PM »


what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.


I guess you will tell me what I made up?


Which is quite ironic considering just how meaningful an "assault weapons" ban would be.

Bucfucious

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« #59 : December 19, 2013, 05:25:19 PM »


Here Vin, have a slice of pure awesomeness, then maybe you won't suck so bad.


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