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spartan

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« #75 : December 23, 2013, 01:50:44 PM »


what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.


I guess you will tell me what I made up?


Which is quite ironic considering just how meaningful an "assault weapons" ban would be.

I guess that means the answer to my questions is "nothing"?

1. Ask question
2. Read answer
3. Ignore answer
4. Pretend answer never happened.
5. Ask question again.

right, if it was something it would have been posted by now, no need for cryptic responses

Nothing cryptic about it Vin. If you don't agree with the answer you pretend it never happened. Pretty simple really.

link?


www.pewterreport.com

CalcuttaRain

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« #76 : December 23, 2013, 01:59:32 PM »


what you disagree with is ANY meaningful control.


I guess you will tell me what I made up?


Which is quite ironic considering just how meaningful an "assault weapons" ban would be.

I guess that means the answer to my questions is "nothing"?

1. Ask question
2. Read answer
3. Ignore answer
4. Pretend answer never happened.
5. Ask question again.

right, if it was something it would have been posted by now, no need for cryptic responses

Nothing cryptic about it Vin. If you don't agree with the answer you pretend it never happened. Pretty simple really.

link?


www.pewterreport.com

right, so you called me a liar pages ago and have not put up anything to support that claim . .  and still cant.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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spartan

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« #77 : December 23, 2013, 06:10:23 PM »

Sorry Vin but I am not going to go through reams and reams of posts to demonstrate how you ignore the answers I give to your questions. It's been documented (ignoring my answers) by others as well as me so this isn't just me blowing smoke.

We are diametrically opposed on this and always will be. I partake not for your benefit but for those who might know better so they be aware of the partial truths and myths that are preached about gun control.

CalcuttaRain

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« #78 : December 23, 2013, 06:28:10 PM »

Sorry Vin but I am not going to go through reams and reams of posts to demonstrate how you ignore the answers I give to your questions. It's been documented (ignoring my answers) by others as well as me so this isn't just me blowing smoke.

We are diametrically opposed on this and always will be. I partake not for your benefit but for those who might know better so they be aware of the partial truths and myths that are preached about gun control.

gotcha, no worries

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

spartan

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« #79 : December 24, 2013, 09:51:19 AM »

Merry Christmas man. Have fun and God bless.

CalcuttaRain

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« #80 : December 24, 2013, 08:04:18 PM »

Same to you and your Spartan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

White Tiger

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« #81 : January 14, 2014, 01:50:51 AM »

If you take the gun-ban/restrictive gun law cities out of Americas violent crime numbers - we kinda jump to the top of the list of really calm places to live - you can look it up.

There have been a few governments that have taken guns away from the citizenry - wanna know their names?

It's kinda true that countries that respect gun ownership have the most polite societies.

Oh, and this just in...when you remove guns from society...deaths by baseball bats start climbing exponentially. Take a look at the riots in jolly old England.

See, even if you could pry my guns out of my hands (which would be impossible, trust me) - bad guys seem to find other "tools" to help them continue being bad.

You just can't take away enough rights to make folks behave. It's almost like not being able to legislate morality!?   
« : January 14, 2014, 01:52:24 AM White Tiger »


CalcuttaRain

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« #82 : January 14, 2014, 11:07:49 AM »

If you take the gun-ban/restrictive gun law cities out of Americas violent crime numbers - we kinda jump to the top of the list of really calm places to live - you can look it up.

There have been a few governments that have taken guns away from the citizenry - wanna know their names?

It's kinda true that countries that respect gun ownership have the most polite societies.

Oh, and this just in...when you remove guns from society...deaths by baseball bats start climbing exponentially. Take a look at the riots in jolly old England.

See, even if you could pry my guns out of my hands (which would be impossible, trust me) - bad guys seem to find other "tools" to help them continue being bad.

You just can't take away enough rights to make folks behave. It's almost like not being able to legislate morality!?   

you're late to the party but thanks for the input.  Most of those talking points have been repeated here many times and no one is talking about "talking guns away from the citizenry" lol. There's a thing called the Constitution, a federal judge just APPROPRIATELY struck the Chicago gun control law as an outright ban

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

White Tiger

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« #83 : January 14, 2014, 02:31:58 PM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating facts - they do prove to be stubborn things.


spartan

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« #84 : January 14, 2014, 03:19:48 PM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating facts - they do prove to be stubborn things.

Let me speed things up a bit. The answer is not only no, but hell no.

CalcuttaRain

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« #85 : January 14, 2014, 06:26:44 PM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating facts - they do prove to be stubborn things.

"A natural right that cannot be limited"?  Nature only exists in the United States? And only since 1791? Lol, read the Supreme Court decision known as Heller .... or don't.

Btw, I must have missed the class where they taught "everything WT posts is a 'fact'" (all evidence to the contrary ...)

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

1bucfan88

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« #86 : January 15, 2014, 11:42:32 AM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating opinions - they do prove to be stubborn things.

Fixed it for you

CalcuttaRain

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« #87 : January 15, 2014, 11:47:22 AM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating opinions - they do prove to be stubborn things.

Fixed it for you

you must've missed the class too . . . :-)

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

White Tiger

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« #88 : May 16, 2014, 01:49:34 PM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating FACTS - they do prove to be stubborn things.

Fixed it for you

you must've missed the class too . . . :-)

Fixed it back to correct your misconceptions and errors.

Since you state things emphatically, without any citations of support - you seem to assert your arguments are just fundamentally true-er...because you state them with conviction?

Unfortunately for you - today is the day I picked to shoot holes in your error - both of you are asleep at the wheel (and just because you really want your error and misconceptions to be true - sadly is not enough to make them so.

First FACT: In their study for the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy entitled:  Would Banning Handguns Reduce Murder and Suicide: A Review if Interntional and some Donestic Evidence Don B Kates (LL.B Yale) and Gary Mauser (Ph.D., California, Irvine) found your ideas to be a myth...

"...There is a compound assertion that (a) guns are uniquely available in the United States compared with other modern developed nations, which is why (b) the United States has by far the highest murder rate. Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, statement (b) is, in fact, false and statement (a) is substantially so...

There is a lot of data in that report - it will actually demonstrate that simply removing the gun ban cities of Chicago and Washington DC (without adding a city like New York) - US violent crime would be THE lowest of any major civilized country on planet earth.

As a matter of fact, the well behaved gun owners of the states of Texas and Florida really help to reduce the nations violent crime statistics BY THEIR INCLUSION.

According to a study by the University of Wisconsin (otherwise known as "Berkley of the East") and Bowling Green State University from 2005 to 2007 study by researchers found that police nationwide were convicted of firearms violations at least at a 0.002 percent annual rate. That’s about the same rate as holders of carry permits in the states with “shall issue”.

http://lastresistance.com/5309/shock-2-public-mass-shootings-since-1950-occurred-gun-free-zones/#bUfokIzYeL8ZocUr.99

You seem to know well that natural rights were available prior to 1791, and are indeed in effect everywhere, including the US - but you don't seem to realize the significance of the FACT that only the US both recognized and embedded them into our founding/organizing documents.

As to your mention of Heller, perhaps what you dont know that it doesn't mean what you think it means?

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/08/so-what-happened-to-chicagos-murder-and.html

So what happened to Chicago's Murder and Violent Crime rates after the Supreme Court decision in June 2010 striking down Chicago's gun laws?
In DC, the change in gunlock laws as a result of the Supreme Court decision meant that about a third of adults already had registered long guns that they were now allowed to legally load and fire for self defense.  In Chicago, very few new guns have been allowed and that gun ownership is essentially restricted to relatively well to do areas (see below).  Yet it is the poorest parts of the city where crime is the worst and where people need guns the most for self protection.  One would thus expect a much bigger change in crime rates from the Heller than the McDonald decisions.  Still, for Chicago, the change in the law has not had the bad effect that many had predicted.


In short - having MORE lawful citizens, with legal guns, does seem to correlate with LESS violent crime...everywhere.

Included - at only the extra charge of your embarrassment - the data doesn't support your concepts.

If it did, then the president could simply lead by example a d disarm the secret service, the mere fact that he does not  proves unilateral disarmament does NOT reduce crime - it dynamically increases it!

And now, even you know it,
« : May 16, 2014, 01:51:47 PM White Tiger »


CalcuttaRain

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« #89 : May 16, 2014, 02:36:12 PM »

Does that mean you came to the conclusion that guns are good for society, and and a natural right that cannot be limited? If so, i didn't see that anywhere?

Sorry for repeating FACTS - they do prove to be stubborn things.

Fixed it for you

you must've missed the class too . . . :-)

Fixed it back to correct your misconceptions and errors.

Since you state things emphatically, without any citations of support - you seem to assert your arguments are just fundamentally true-er...because you state them with conviction?

Unfortunately for you - today is the day I picked to shoot holes in your error - both of you are asleep at the wheel (and just because you really want your error and misconceptions to be true - sadly is not enough to make them so.

First FACT: In their study for the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy entitled:  Would Banning Handguns Reduce Murder and Suicide: A Review if Interntional and some Donestic Evidence Don B Kates (LL.B Yale) and Gary Mauser (Ph.D., California, Irvine) found your ideas to be a myth...

"...There is a compound assertion that (a) guns are uniquely available in the United States compared with other modern developed nations, which is why (b) the United States has by far the highest murder rate. Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, statement (b) is, in fact, false and statement (a) is substantially so...

WT, if you look through these threads this issue has been discussed ad nauseam, but the short version is this: no one here - certainly not me -- makes the (strawman) assertion in the Harvard report you cite.  I don't think I have seen anyone here make the claim and I know I have not made the claim that "the United States has by far the highest murder rate" because "guns are uniquely available in the United States." 

that strawman argument you cite is actually trumpeted by gun advocate so often that the same Harvard center has come out many times since that 2007 (I think) report you cite and noted things like "cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide."  Note: "in the US"

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

What I have said and what Harvard has said repeatedly -- and this is not contradicted by the report that you cite -- is that as a matter of simple logic: MORE GUNS = MORE GUN VIOLENCE.  In other words, the more guns you have around the more likely gun homicides, gun injuries, gun accidents, gun suicides etc.  By way of example, the same Harvard center your referenced just issued a report reaching the (obvious to me) conclusion that we have many thefts and property crimes that become murders because the criminal (and even the victim) are more likely to have guns and guns are more deadly than knives and crowbars etc. I have posted it before but I can find the link

You are more likely to get struck by lightning when there is a lot of lighting around. If you swim in a pond with one piranha you're less likely to get bit then in a pond with 10,000 piranha .. .  more guns = more gun violence.  Not even sure that is controversial, but hey . .

« : May 16, 2014, 02:38:25 PM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center
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