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JDouble

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#225 : February 12, 2014, 10:17:36 PM

pass on Albert, he's only one year younger than Penn...

20 months younger....so closer to 2 years. Albert will still be 29 when the 2014 season starts, while Penn will already be 31.

Draft Aaron Donald



Booker Reese

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#226 : February 13, 2014, 10:15:06 AM

Problem for Mack with me isn't about fitting him in the short run cap-wise.

It's about doubling down on paying very big dollars to very good but non-elite interior guys. Players like Nicks are the exception to that rule.

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#227 : February 13, 2014, 11:16:00 AM

Cutting Jospeh and Penn and replacing them with Albert and Mack wouldn't be much of a net difference as far as cap, but it sure would be a big change. I could get behind that.

I am not opposed to this.


JDouble

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#228 : February 13, 2014, 12:19:48 PM

Problem for Mack with me isn't about fitting him in the short run cap-wise.

It's about doubling down on paying very big dollars to very good but non-elite interior guys. Players like Nicks are the exception to that rule.

I get what you are saying, but centers don't make crazy money. The #1 paid center is Ryan Kalil and he makes $8.2M/yr. The 10th highest paid center is Jeremy Zuttah. He averages $4.1M/yr. The average yearly salary of the top 10 centers is $5.9M/yr.

So if you are looking for the most bang for your buck, getting a guy like Mack, that might be the best center in the league, for around $8M/yr over a very average center in Zuttah for $4.1M.....I think it's worth it.

At most positions, if you want the best in the league through free agency, you are gonna pay $12M+ per year, so spending $8M on Mack seems like good money to me. Especially when you figure that we will have either a very young QB in Glennon, or an even younger rookie QB under center. A great vet like Mack that can help with pre snap calls and alignments is crucial. I think if we swapped out Penn for Albert and signed Mack, we would be much better off for the same amount of money. We could slide Zuttah over to guard and we would need to draft a solid starting guard for cheap.

Draft Aaron Donald



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#229 : February 13, 2014, 01:08:03 PM

I bet Lovie and all fellow associates read this thread.........laughed like hell and forgot about it.

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#230 : February 13, 2014, 01:22:06 PM

Problem for Mack with me isn't about fitting him in the short run cap-wise.

It's about doubling down on paying very big dollars to very good but non-elite interior guys. Players like Nicks are the exception to that rule.

I get what you are saying, but centers don't make crazy money. The #1 paid center is Ryan Kalil and he makes $8.2M/yr. The 10th highest paid center is Jeremy Zuttah. He averages $4.1M/yr. The average yearly salary of the top 10 centers is $5.9M/yr.

So if you are looking for the most bang for your buck, getting a guy like Mack, that might be the best center in the league, for around $8M/yr over a very average center in Zuttah for $4.1M.....I think it's worth it.

At most positions, if you want the best in the league through free agency, you are gonna pay $12M+ per year, so spending $8M on Mack seems like good money to me. Especially when you figure that we will have either a very young QB in Glennon, or an even younger rookie QB under center. A great vet like Mack that can help with pre snap calls and alignments is crucial. I think if we swapped out Penn for Albert and signed Mack, we would be much better off for the same amount of money. We could slide Zuttah over to guard and we would need to draft a solid starting guard for cheap.

right, but the average salary can be misleading. Go to Over the Cap and see how it looks in the case of Kalil. His cap number is $11 million this year. 

I'm also thinking if you are paying $8 million per for the C, what does that mean for the spending share on the OL as a whole?

Also don't think moving Zuttah to guard helps. He's a break in case of emergency guard to me.

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#231 : February 13, 2014, 02:06:52 PM

Rotoworld Football ‏@Rotoworld_FB 4m

Lions release veteran wideout Nate Burleson http://dlvr.it/4wTM4r


JDouble

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#232 : February 13, 2014, 02:29:28 PM



I'm also thinking if you are paying $8 million per for the C, what does that mean for the spending share on the OL as a whole?

Well if Zuttah, Dotson, and a rookie OG are only costing you a combined $6M....then it is perfectly ok to be spending a combined $18M on your LT and C.


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Also don't think moving Zuttah to guard helps. He's a break in case of emergency guard to me.

I'm not a huge fan of Zuttah and would love to replace him as well, but you can only do so much in one offseason. He isn't perfect, but he is an upgrade at guard over Davin Joseph or Carl Nicks.....considering Carl Nicks doesn't actually play and is all but retired. Hard to argue that Mack @ center with Zuttah @ guard would not be a huge upgrade over Zuttah @ center and Joseph @ guard.
: February 13, 2014, 02:31:32 PM JDouble

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#233 : February 13, 2014, 02:50:42 PM

i dont like to spend too much for interior Oline...
you can find good guard production through the draft with 2nd/3rd day picks...
for center position the best in the game are 1st or 2nd round pick (Mangold, Kalil, Mack, Frederick, Raiola, Wood, Pouncey's...) ,
but you can find some good or average production with a 5-7th round pick/udfa (De La Puente, Sullivan, Kelce, Myers, Cook, Koppen, Goodwin)
after the QB, for me the trenches should be the most valuable part of your team... but you have to spend the big money where it's matter, where you need a difference maker... UT/DE for the Dline (Passrusher)... for the Oline, LT cause he's one on one most of the time and the blind side protector...
after that it's a choice based on which position you value the most in your system?
is the center position, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th position of value in Tedford's system?

imo if OC is top 3 Oline postion of value for Tedford, signing Alex Mack make too much sense... former Browns Oline coach and former college Head Coach on our team... and i dont like to spend big on this position!


: February 13, 2014, 02:52:18 PM The Freeman

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#234 : February 13, 2014, 03:26:52 PM

Tim Twentyman ‏@ttwentyman

The #Lions have also released S Louis Delmas. That saves them another $6 mil. Team has cut $11.5 from the 2014 cap today.


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#235 : February 13, 2014, 03:38:34 PM

JD -

Dotson and Zuttah alone cost $6.5 million in 2014. Your scenario is spending $24K on 5 guys. That's basically where we were last year with the entire OL, not just the starters (4th most $ dedicated to the OL). And that's equal to more than 50% of last year's offensive spending. Obviously, the year to year cap stuff can be adjusted.

If I were doing it, I'd just keep Zuttah at C, Dotson at RT, Penn at LT. Nicks plays if he can play.  Joseph is a cut. You bring in 1 or 2 low-level FA Guard. You use middle round picks (4 and 5) on interior guys.

I'd also be considering Matthews and Robinson with pick 7 if I were the Bucs.

If we are bringing in Mack, I'd cut Zuttah and replace him with a real guard.  Zuttah's value to me is as a starting C and jack-of-all trades backup. But at $4.5 milion he's too expensive to be just the jack-of-all-trades guy.

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#236 : February 13, 2014, 03:47:12 PM

   Mack would be the best C we've ever had; clear upgrade. And, unless Joseph has a breakout, Zuttah would be an upgrade at RG.

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#237 : February 13, 2014, 04:10:10 PM

Tony Mayberry was pretty good.

It's not whether or not Zuttah is an "upgrade" over Joseph. He was literally the lowest-graded RG by Pro Football Focus. It's whether he's enough of an upgrade at G. And at C, it's about value. I'm not doubting he's better than Zuttah.

JDouble

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#238 : February 14, 2014, 05:17:22 PM

Lions cut Louis Delmas to save $6M in cap room. A solid 26 year old safety. Little inconsistent, but pretty solid overall. Could probably sign him for half of what Goldson makes.

Draft Aaron Donald



alldaway

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#239 : February 14, 2014, 05:20:44 PM

Delmas would be a nice addition.

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