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CalcuttaRain

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#360 : February 10, 2014, 11:02:52 PM

I have no hatred.

In fact I like going back with Vin on this. The reason being that it forces me to look at, reinforce and refresh why it is I like guns, and why I support the 2nd Amendment. And, what is more, if he or someone else would actually come up with a good proposal with regards to guns I would be in a better position to recognize it. Contrary to  that he might think I am in the "just say no" camp.

I wasn't referring to you, just the thread as a whole and the ATTITUDES expressed in some of the users here, not the users themselves.

for my part absolutely no hatred toward anyone, period.

I also think Spartan is the least likely to resort to nonsense because he is the most sincere in his views about personal freedom  and also the most sincere gun guy. I doubt we agree on much when it comes to guns, but I respect his opinion even if I disagree

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CalcuttaRain

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#361 : February 11, 2014, 03:04:56 PM

another likely failed SYG defense involving a CWP

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/loud-music-murder-defendant-i-feared-my-life-n27591

I guess we will see

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The Anomaly

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#362 : February 12, 2014, 03:22:51 PM

another likely failed SYG defense involving a CWP

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/loud-music-murder-defendant-i-feared-my-life-n27591

I guess we will see

The guys lawyer actually said this..."The danger facing Dunn "need not be actual," according to Strolla -- he had to believe the danger was real."

That is f ing scary.  No way should anyone get protection by way of perceived fear.  Total BS. 

CalcuttaRain

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#363 : February 12, 2014, 04:02:56 PM

another likely failed SYG defense involving a CWP

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/loud-music-murder-defendant-i-feared-my-life-n27591

I guess we will see

The guys lawyer actually said this..."The danger facing Dunn "need not be actual," according to Strolla -- he had to believe the danger was real."

That is f ing scary.  No way should anyone get protection by way of perceived fear.  Total BS.

that is actually the law, as I understand it, but it may not seem as crazy if you think of it this way, his fear had to be reasonable from a subjective perspective not an objective perspective  . . . .meaning that HE has to have had a reasonable fear in his mind as opposed to a reasonable fear in anyone's mind with the hindsight of the actual facts. That is why in the movie theater case the defendant will say "I have seen the video now and I see that he did not throw a punch at me, but I thought he did at that time."

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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CalcuttaRain

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#364 : February 13, 2014, 11:16:50 AM

The template for the movie theater case:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/13/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#365 : February 13, 2014, 12:06:44 PM

prosecution may say he was agitated by the lack of response fro the theater employees

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/watch-new-video-released-in-movie-theater-shooting/2165417

wonder how the employee(s) will testify

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

The Anomaly

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#366 : February 15, 2014, 08:28:54 PM

The letters Dunn wrote in jail clearly show racial bias. In one letter Dunn writes, "The jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these %$#!@ idiots when they're threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior."  Yet the letters were never introduced as evidence. Why not?

Dude is going to jail for the rest of his life.  The quotes from the letter tell the story.  How there was a hung jury is beyond me.  Terrible law.

threadkiller

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#367 : February 15, 2014, 09:59:47 PM

Personally, guns scare the **CENSORED** out of me.  I choose not to keep them.  I weighed the desire to have one to defend myself and my family in my home against the responsibility for it's use and educating my family (mainly children) about them and decided against ownership.   I choose other ways to safeguard my family and home. 

Even so, I am totally pro gun.  Have many friends and co-workers who have them as well as concealed carry permits.  I honestly feel safer knowing that many responsible and fairly well trained Floridians carry.  The random nut jobs who tragically misuse them while legally owning and carrying (understand this was not the case in the movie theater shooting to begin with) is not enough to shake that belief. 

That said, I strongly dislike the SYG law as I understand it.  My opinion is if you choose to take on the responsibility of discharging your firearm at another human you have to be right.  Period.  Doesn't matter how you feel or interpret what you are experiencing imo.  If it turns out you were wrong, and another human losses his/her life (or is seriously wounded), you should spend a significant part of the rest of your life in prison (again imo). 

Glad I got that of my chest.

CalcuttaRain

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#368 : February 15, 2014, 11:30:09 PM

Personally, guns scare the **CENSORED** out of me.  I choose not to keep them.  I weighed the desire to have one to defend myself and my family in my home against the responsibility for it's use and educating my family (mainly children) about them and decided against ownership.   I choose other ways to safeguard my family and home. 

Even so, I am totally pro gun.  Have many friends and co-workers who have them as well as concealed carry permits.  I honestly feel safer knowing that many responsible and fairly well trained Floridians carry.  The random nut jobs who tragically misuse them while legally owning and carrying (understand this was not the case in the movie theater shooting to begin with) is not enough to shake that belief. 

That said, I strongly dislike the SYG law as I understand it.  My opinion is if you choose to take on the responsibility of discharging your firearm at another human you have to be right.  Period.  Doesn't matter how you feel or interpret what you are experiencing imo.  If it turns out you were wrong, and another human losses his/her life (or is seriously wounded), you should spend a significant part of the rest of your life in prison (again imo). 

Glad I got that of my chest.

on syg, the standard is the way it is because the focus is the killers state of mind as opposed to whether in hindsight the killer was wrong, but you make a fair point ..  interesting timing too, I just read that the judge had to send the jury back in the loud music case

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

threadkiller

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#369 : February 16, 2014, 08:59:25 AM

on syg, the standard is the way it is because the focus is the killers state of mind as opposed to whether in hindsight the killer was wrong, but you make a fair point ..  interesting timing too, I just read that the judge had to send the jury back in the loud music case

I won't claim to know all the in's and out's of the situations.  From what I gather Aqib was far more justified busting off at his sister's ex then loud music dude was shooting up that SUV. 

But use of potential deadly force would require a life or death situation to justify in my opinion.  Not being or feeling threatened.  So I'm probably more stringent in how I would allow self-defense or SYG (which again, wouldn't be on my books) then many gun advocates. 

olafberserker

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#370 : February 19, 2014, 10:56:50 AM

No gun, no death ......  uh

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/pd-roommate-beaten-to-death-over-chicken-foot-dispute/24536834

CalcuttaRain

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#371 : February 19, 2014, 12:15:12 PM

No gun, no death

"As the "straw man" metaphor suggests, the counterfeit position attacked in a Straw Man argument is typically weaker than the opponent's actual position, just as a straw man is easier to defeat than a flesh-and-blood one. Of course, this is no accident, but is part of what makes the fallacy tempting to commit, especially to a desperate debater who is losing an argument. Thus, it is no surprise that arguers seldom misstate their opponent's position so as to make it stronger. Of course, if there is an obvious way to make a debating opponent's position stronger, then one is up against an incompetent debater. Debaters usually try to take the strongest position they can, so that any change is likely to be for the worse. However, attacking a logically stronger position than that taken by the opponent is a sign of strength, whereas attacking a straw man is a sign of weakness."

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Biggs3535

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#372 : February 19, 2014, 12:34:46 PM

No gun, no death

"As the "straw man" metaphor suggests, the counterfeit position attacked in a Straw Man argument is typically weaker than the opponent's actual position, just as a straw man is easier to defeat than a flesh-and-blood one. Of course, this is no accident, but is part of what makes the fallacy tempting to commit, especially to a desperate debater who is losing an argument. Thus, it is no surprise that arguers seldom misstate their opponent's position so as to make it stronger. Of course, if there is an obvious way to make a debating opponent's position stronger, then one is up against an incompetent debater. Debaters usually try to take the strongest position they can, so that any change is likely to be for the worse. However, attacking a logically stronger position than that taken by the opponent is a sign of strength, whereas attacking a straw man is a sign of weakness."

I think the good counselor is confusing a straw-man argument with using someone's words verbatim:

no gun no death

That Stetson education is really paying off.


CalcuttaRain

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#373 : February 19, 2014, 12:39:58 PM

No gun, no death

"As the "straw man" metaphor suggests, the counterfeit position attacked in a Straw Man argument is typically weaker than the opponent's actual position, just as a straw man is easier to defeat than a flesh-and-blood one. Of course, this is no accident, but is part of what makes the fallacy tempting to commit, especially to a desperate debater who is losing an argument. Thus, it is no surprise that arguers seldom misstate their opponent's position so as to make it stronger. Of course, if there is an obvious way to make a debating opponent's position stronger, then one is up against an incompetent debater. Debaters usually try to take the strongest position they can, so that any change is likely to be for the worse. However, attacking a logically stronger position than that taken by the opponent is a sign of strength, whereas attacking a straw man is a sign of weakness."

I think the good counselor is confusing a straw-man argument with using someone's words verbatim:

no gun no death

That Stetson education is really paying off.

I would expect you to make that mistake Buggsy . . . way to compound the strawman mistake . . lol


http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1313358.msg2133677.html#msg2133677

Oh by the way . . .

thanks for illustrating this point to PERFECTION:

http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1314053.0.html


lmao . ..  funny to watch some of you try so hard that you continually step on yourselves. 





But have fun . .  that's all that matters :-)
: February 19, 2014, 12:51:14 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Bucfucious

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#374 : February 19, 2014, 12:54:34 PM

No gun, no death

"As the "straw man" metaphor suggests, the counterfeit position attacked in a Straw Man argument is typically weaker than the opponent's actual position, just as a straw man is easier to defeat than a flesh-and-blood one. Of course, this is no accident, but is part of what makes the fallacy tempting to commit, especially to a desperate debater who is losing an argument. Thus, it is no surprise that arguers seldom misstate their opponent's position so as to make it stronger. Of course, if there is an obvious way to make a debating opponent's position stronger, then one is up against an incompetent debater. Debaters usually try to take the strongest position they can, so that any change is likely to be for the worse. However, attacking a logically stronger position than that taken by the opponent is a sign of strength, whereas attacking a straw man is a sign of weakness."

I think the good counselor is confusing a straw-man argument with using someone's words verbatim:

no gun no death

That Stetson education is really paying off.

You misunderstand. The counselor actually is a strawman, therefore any argument he makes...
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