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GameTime

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#165 : January 25, 2014, 09:04:38 PM

so the consensus is that doug martin is a top 10 rb on a rookie deal with no trade value?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

olafberserker

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#166 : January 25, 2014, 09:22:50 PM

Without a doubt the roster needs blowing up big time.

It's going to take at least a couple of offseasons to clear up the messes Dom left.



Wrong. It can be fixed in one offseason and without blowing up the entire roster .
Wrong, a bandaid can be put on the roster but it won't be truly fixed for years thanks to the dumb contracts and the quantity of solid depth needed to go along with major improvements at position of importance.
For starters Nicks, that mess is very hard to clear up thanks to him costing $4mill more being off the roster than on it, if we keep him that's near $10 mill at a position of little value being paid to an injured guy that will likely never get back to 100%. What a great situation. Throw in how bad Joseph is and we likely need 2 new starting guards while still paying Nicks an idiotic amount.
Tell me, how do you fix that in 1 year? Let's just tie up $20 mill in 3 guards for 2014 while paying Revis his money, still having to pay GMac, Jackson his money.
The cap isn't some limitless pot of cash and the way some things are set up isn't great for sorting them out in 2014.

 ???

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#167 : January 26, 2014, 02:28:26 AM

so the consensus is that doug martin is a top 10 rb on a rookie deal with no trade value?


No. Consensus is we have some really ridiculous fans with little to no grip on reality. We have a young, cheap, outstanding playmaker in our backfield. He is one of the few bright spots on offense. There is no valid reason to even have this conversion. Anyone with a lick of common sense realizes this is complete nonsense not at all based in reality.


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#168 : January 26, 2014, 06:28:11 AM

Without a doubt the roster needs blowing up big time.

It's going to take at least a couple of offseasons to clear up the messes Dom left.



Wrong. It can be fixed in one offseason and without blowing up the entire roster .
Wrong, a bandaid can be put on the roster but it won't be truly fixed for years thanks to the dumb contracts and the quantity of solid depth needed to go along with major improvements at position of importance.
For starters Nicks, that mess is very hard to clear up thanks to him costing $4mill more being off the roster than on it, if we keep him that's near $10 mill at a position of little value being paid to an injured guy that will likely never get back to 100%. What a great situation. Throw in how bad Joseph is and we likely need 2 new starting guards while still paying Nicks an idiotic amount.
Tell me, how do you fix that in 1 year? Let's just tie up $20 mill in 3 guards for 2014 while paying Revis his money, still having to pay GMac, Jackson his money.
The cap isn't some limitless pot of cash and the way some things are set up isn't great for sorting them out in 2014.

 ???
What part are you struggling with, it's pretty clear.
This teams roster is built totally wrong and thanks to dumb Dom with his lousy contracts it can't be fixed in a single offseason like the post I was replying to claimed.
It seems many have their head stuck in the sand and think we actually have a talented roster that is a few pieces away when truth is we have a poor roster made up of some overpaid names at the top of the depth chart and a whole lot of scrubs.
When the only positional unit on the entire team that doesn't need looking into is RB the team has major issues.
I would say there are maybe 5 players on the entire roster that don't need to either be replaced outright or redo there deals..

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#169 : January 26, 2014, 08:21:15 AM

I am inclined to agree.

The Bucs have poorly allocated resources at: Safety, both guard spots, Center, and Punter.  Those are only five players but they take up a huge chunk of the cap space.  Throw in Revis' deal and it starts to easy see how bad the team has been managed cap wise.   Meanwhile pass rusher, QB and left tackle are all question marks.

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#170 : January 26, 2014, 08:41:45 AM

To add to the Doug Martin discussion the new HC grandson and the new GM son both wore Doug Martin jersey's.  Doesn't add much fact to the discussion but my guess is Doug Martin isn't going anywhere.

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#171 : January 26, 2014, 09:38:19 AM

Without a doubt the roster needs blowing up big time.

It's going to take at least a couple of offseasons to clear up the messes Dom left.



Wrong. It can be fixed in one offseason and without blowing up the entire roster .
Wrong, a bandaid can be put on the roster but it won't be truly fixed for years thanks to the dumb contracts and the quantity of solid depth needed to go along with major improvements at position of importance.
For starters Nicks, that mess is very hard to clear up thanks to him costing $4mill more being off the roster than on it, if we keep him that's near $10 mill at a position of little value being paid to an injured guy that will likely never get back to 100%. What a great situation. Throw in how bad Joseph is and we likely need 2 new starting guards while still paying Nicks an idiotic amount.
Tell me, how do you fix that in 1 year? Let's just tie up $20 mill in 3 guards for 2014 while paying Revis his money, still having to pay GMac, Jackson his money.
The cap isn't some limitless pot of cash and the way some things are set up isn't great for sorting them out in 2014.

 ???
What part are you struggling with, it's pretty clear.
This teams roster is built totally wrong and thanks to dumb Dom with his lousy contracts it can't be fixed in a single offseason like the post I was replying to claimed.
It seems many have their head stuck in the sand and think we actually have a talented roster that is a few pieces away when truth is we have a poor roster made up of some overpaid names at the top of the depth chart and a whole lot of scrubs.
When the only positional unit on the entire team that doesn't need looking into is RB the team has major issues.
I would say there are maybe 5 players on the entire roster that don't need to either be replaced outright or redo there deals..


I agree that this roster is built wrong. Way too much money devoted to interior O-line and DBs. I disagree that Dom did lousy contracts that we can't get out of. Quite the opposite actually. The only contract that we can't get out of is Goldson, and that is because he is only in his 2nd year. In 2015 we can cut ties with him with no penalty if we want to. This year though, other than Goldson, there isn't a single contract we are stuck with. Dom left us in great shape to cut any dead weight we want.


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#172 : January 26, 2014, 09:42:54 AM

Martin is on his rookie contract  and he has good value.

But I don't see a good cap situation unless the Bucs cut 8-9 players.  If you have to cut that many players you have to replace them somehow while also upgrading other areas.  And the Bucs lack draft picks.  Licht emphasis on the draft suggests that this team will stockpile picks this year.

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#173 : January 26, 2014, 09:54:04 AM

I agree that this roster is built wrong. Way too much money devoted to interior O-line and DBs. I disagree that Dom did lousy contracts that we can't get out of. Quite the opposite actually. The only contract that we can't get out of is Goldson, and that is because he is only in his 2nd year. In 2015 we can cut ties with him with no penalty if we want to. This year though, other than Goldson, there isn't a single contract we are stuck with. Dom left us in great shape to cut any dead weight we want.
It's not just Golson, Nicks has $6 mill guaranteed for injury in 2014, the reason we want to dump him is injury, put that number with the bonus money that would accelerate and he cost $4 mill more to dump than keep.
So that's 2 of Doms big deals, he got lucky with Wright, Jackson is over rated & overpaid but thanks to the $7.25 mill of dead money it would create we can't do much there, that leaves Revis, sure we can just dump his idiotic $16 mill salary but who just releases the best corner in the game a year after giving up a 1st & 3rd for him?
As far as Goldson goes, it's not cap free if we dump him in 2015, we're still on the hook for $3 mill of his salary which is guaranteed, he's the gift that keeps on giving.
: January 26, 2014, 09:56:34 AM TBTrojan

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#174 : January 26, 2014, 10:22:51 AM

Why would we wanna get rid of VJax? He just turned 31 last week. If he stays healthy, he probably has another three years of being very good.


TBTrojan

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#175 : January 26, 2014, 11:06:40 AM

Why would we wanna get rid of VJax? He just turned 31 last week. If he stays healthy, he probably has another three years of being very good.
I'm not saying we should get rid of him, just that his contract is trash for a guy of his level.
If we wanted to improve our #1 situation from being average it's very limiting.

Hate

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#176 : January 26, 2014, 11:19:24 AM

Can we stop the madness, please? Its not like Martin is a has-been like CJ2K making $10mil. He's a 3rd yr back making a million and a significant piece to an evolving offense.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#177 : January 26, 2014, 11:24:47 AM

To add to the Doug Martin discussion the new HC grandson and the new GM son both wore Doug Martin jersey's.  Doesn't add much fact to the discussion but my guess is Doug Martin isn't going anywhere.

Well there you have it!

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#178 : January 26, 2014, 12:05:17 PM

Why would we wanna get rid of VJax? He just turned 31 last week. If he stays healthy, he probably has another three years of being very good.
I'm not saying we should get rid of him, just that his contract is trash for a guy of his level.
If we wanted to improve our #1 situation from being average it's very limiting.

Awful teams need to give out big money if they expect free agent to sign with them.

Without drafting anyone, who could we sign in FA for cheaper that's better than Vjax? The guy put up good stats with Freeman and a rookie Glennon.

JDouble

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#179 : January 26, 2014, 12:23:20 PM

Why would we wanna get rid of VJax? He just turned 31 last week. If he stays healthy, he probably has another three years of being very good.
I'm not saying we should get rid of him, just that his contract is trash for a guy of his level.
If we wanted to improve our #1 situation from being average it's very limiting.


I think that is debatable. He has the 6th highest cap hit of WRs in 2014. I think he deserves that money after the way he has played in 2012 and 2013.

Over the last two years he has had 150 receptions for 2608 yards and 15 TDs. For comparison...

Fitzgerald makes $6M more per year and has had 153 rec. for 1752 yards and 14 TDs.

Guys like Harvin and Mike Wallace make more and are nowhere near the level of VJax. Desean Jackson makes more too and has been no where near as productive.

Andre Johnson's cap hit is almost identical, and while their yardage in similar, Johnson has only caught 11 TDs over the last three seasons and is two years older.

In the end, I think the market dictates the price and he is worth his salary. As bad as our offense was last year, it would have been unimaginable without VJax. He was literally like 70% of our offense. He doesn't have the burners anymore but he makes the hard catches and is money in the redzone. I don't think there is any reason to be complaining about his contract. It has paid off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDq8QGpasLw   <---- evidence.

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