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michael89156

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« : March 02, 2014, 03:50:31 AM »


What do the pro-Glennon people see in him?
 
Feb 28 2014, 12:47pm
 


Mike Glennon's girlfriend Jess Wetherill



I want to start this out with this disclaimer: I do hope the Bucs upgrade the QB position, I don't think Mike Glennon is very good and I don't think he will ever become a top shelf QB. But this doesn't mean that I wouldn't be happy if Glennon does become a top shelf QB. If he can then that's all the better for the Bucs and I will be happy with him. I just don't think it will happen.
 
But aside from that I'm having a hard time understanding the Pro-Glennon viewpoint.
 
A lot of the things that people talk about in support of him are:

 
1. His TD:INT ratio, his completion percentage and his QB rating.

 •Sander has written an article about misleading statistics. And statistics are not the best indicator of how good a player is. Game film has shown that he isn't a good QB. He doesn't excel at reading coverages and isn't good with ball placement.
 
2. He had a terrible team around him and a lot injuries.

 •Every team has to deal with injuries and overcome them. They should never be an excuse. As for the terrible team, this team was far better than the completely devoid of talent 2009 Buccaneers that Josh Freeman had to deal with, yet he showed the potential for being a top shelf QB with his comeback win over the Packers.
 
3. Lovie Smith took Rex Grossman to the Superbowl. And we won the Superbowl with Brad Johnson.

 •Yes these things are true. But the likelihood of those things happening in today's NFL which has become a QB driven league are very low. Lovie Smith was fired in part for his lack of getting a QB who is more than a game manager.

4. You guys gave Freeman 5 years why not give Glennon more than 13 games?

 •Again Freeman showed some potential even in his rookie season (comeback win against the Packers). Glennon hasn't shown the same potential. Plus there wasn't really any chances to upgrade that spot during Freeman's time.
 
5. Greg Cosell says he is a better pocket passer than RG3.

 •That doesn't mean anything. RG3 has never had to be a pocket passer until this past season. His rookie season and in college he never had to do it. Mike Glennon has had experience with it working in a pro-style offense in college. Based off of that he should be the better pocket passer. Also being the better pocket passer at the moment doesn't mean he is overall a better QB.
 
6. He was the best of the rookie QBs last year.

 •Being the best of the worst QB draft class doesn't say much.
 
7. He was playing in a terrible system. He had terrible coaching.

 •This is probably the best argument for him but even then there are some faults. This means we should probably ignore what he did last season. And we should use his senior season at NC State to look at him. His strengths coming out of NC state were: cannon arm, good mechanics, book smart, height. His weaknesses coming out of NC State were: bad decision making, doesn't have good accuracy, inconsistent, throws a lot of interceptions, a statue in the pocket, etc. So using that he still doesn't come out as someone we should bank on becoming a top shelf QB. And his last season wasn't as good as the seasons the top QBs in this draft had.
 
8. He looked good in the no huddle offense against the 49ers.

 •You're saying two drives was enough to prove something to you. This while saying 13 games is not enough to evaluate him?
 
9. Give Glennon a year if he doesn't improve we can just get another QB in the next draft.

 •According to Lovie Smith a good defense and good special teams can get you to around 10 wins. Assuming we aren't going to do anywhere near as bad as this year, what makes you think we will be in a position to draft a good QB next year? And if you saying we can trade up, wouldn't it be better to trade up this year when we have a higher pick which means it shouldn't cost us as much?

10. Jeff Tedford is amazing at developing QBs.

 •Yes he was amazing at developing QBs, in college. Most of those QBs though weren't successful in the NFL. But besides that he is unproven in the NFL. We have no idea how good he will be. The argument using Jeff Tedford is a lot of just hope.

 •Also say he is really good at developing QBs then why don't you think it would be a good idea to draft a top QB from this draft and see what he can do with them? They have more talent for him to work with.
 
And one last one regarding why they wouldn't draft a QB.
 
11. I don't like any of the top 3 QBs in the draft, even if we were to try and upgrade the QB spot.

 •I have seen people ask for why pro-Glennon people don't like the top 3 QBs, and yet those questions have gotten no responses. People say Bortles wouldn't even be considered as a top QB if mariota and hundley hadn't stayed in school. And I say Bortles came on strong towards the end of the year. And yes it is true that QBs are pushed up in the draft, but then why wasn't Glennon pushed up in last year's draft? Why was there only one QB taken in the first round last year? Also if you are making the reasoning that they aren't Andrew Luck so we shouldn't draft them, that is flawed as well. Andrew Luck is a once in a generation prospect, you can't just wait on drafting a QB til the next once in a generation prospect is there.
 
Those are pretty much the only things the Pro-glennon people have said about supporting Glennon. And I've put down in the shortest possible form why those arguments don't really help support Glennon.
 
What I would like is for pro-Glennon supporters to give me an argument that is more than just blind hope. An argument that will make me believe in him.





http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/2/28/5457202/what-do-the-pro-glennon-people-see

TBTrojan

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« #1 : March 02, 2014, 04:01:02 AM »

Well that about covers all the bases, even if the part about bad coaching could have been much worse/better depending on your POV, that same staff helped the offense break records the previous year only for the wheels to come off with whatever Freemans issues are, leaving us with a low talent, low potential rookie to finish out the last 13 games.
I'm not saying the 2012 offense was great (far from it) but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as that garbage from last year, 16.8 yards a game less than the 31st ranked Jags (I know, they were fully healthy and SOOOoooooooooooo talented which is why they were better)

Lord Jenkins

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« #2 : March 02, 2014, 04:04:55 AM »

Lol I always love this argument. "You guys gave Freeman 5 years why not give Glennon more than 13 games?"

I didn't give anyone anything. Coaching would be pretty cool though.


jerseybucsfan

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« #3 : March 02, 2014, 05:12:29 AM »

I would be curious to see a stat how  we ranked offensively just in first halves. Could be more telling.

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« #4 : March 02, 2014, 05:34:15 AM »

Give him the season, lets see how it works out.  Thats all.


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jerseybucsfan

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« #5 : March 02, 2014, 05:37:13 AM »

Give him the season, lets see how it works out.  Thats all.
  But what if we go 8-8 and he is slightly improved?

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The Anti-Java

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« #6 : March 02, 2014, 05:42:12 AM »

Give him the season, lets see how it works out.  Thats all.
  But what if we go 8-8 and he is slightly improved?


Then its decision time.  And that is why Lovie and Litch make the big bucks.  It will be telling, if they draft a QB this May, or sign a free agent QB.  And what caliber FA QB they sign. Its going to be interesting.


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jerseybucsfan

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« #7 : March 02, 2014, 05:46:11 AM »

Give him the season, lets see how it works out.  Thats all.
  But what if we go 8-8 and he is slightly improved?


Then its decision time.  And that is why Lovie and Litch make the big bucks.  It will be telling, if they draft a QB this May, or sign a free agent QB.  And what caliber FA QB they sign. Its going to be interesting.
Yup. But avoid QB purgatory at all costs.

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The Anti-Java

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« #8 : March 02, 2014, 05:51:43 AM »

Give him the season, lets see how it works out.  Thats all.
  But what if we go 8-8 and he is slightly improved?


Then its decision time.  And that is why Lovie and Litch make the big bucks.  It will be telling, if they draft a QB this May, or sign a free agent QB.  And what caliber FA QB they sign. Its going to be interesting.
Yup. But avoid QB purgatory at all costs.



Agree.  Lets hope he makes it an easy decision. He is exceptionally good or exceptionally bad.   Hopefully the former.


sig pic by chace1986

PewterReportMC....
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Nicodemus

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« #9 : March 02, 2014, 06:12:34 AM »

And why shouldn't we support him? The author of the article starts off with saying he doesn't like Glennon because he's managed to judge him from 13 games of a craptastic season led by a coaching staff that imploded. That same craptastic season had only a few bright spots in it and one of those actually happened to be the performance of a rookie QB.

Whether we like it or not a lot of the blame for last season goes no further than the coaching staff. Could Glennon have won more games last year for the team, you bet he could, but only if the HC had given him the ability to do so. How many times did we see the WHOLE team suddenly play not to lose in the second half of games? That doesn't come from the QB, that comes from the coaching staff who didn't know how to win, or make adjustments.

If I remember rightly, Glennon had a lot more than 2 drives with the no huddle O, and each one was actually pretty good. It played to his strengths. I also remember a lot of fans on this board all being slightly stunned and bemused by Schiano's presser after one game where he was asked why they didn't use no huddle more often and his reply was "we don't practice it". That in itself should be one of the biggest indicators that the issue with the Bucs last year was not the QB, especially when you don't gameplan to what your QB can obviously do very well.

I am personally fed up of all the bashing of our current QB and the calls to change him for someone unproven in the NFL after the catastrophic coaching displayed last year. The last time I looked Football was still a team game and it takes a team to win, I also remember one of the "Elite" QBs in the league being destroyed by the Seahawks in the last Superbowl. I saw enough from last season to see a QB come into a very bad situation, and do pretty well while being hamstrung by his coaches and the lack of talent around him. If you stick any of the QBs from this draft into that situation last year everyone here would probably be wanting to get rid of them.

I see shades of the Steve Young/Testeverde issue again. We had a pretty decent QB but didn't know how to use him, so what do we do? We can one to get the other and set ourselves back another 5 years. We seem to be heading in the same direction again because too many of you think the next batch of QBs are a better quick fix than actually building and developing with what we have. I am slowly getting to the point where I hope we do draft a QB high, and that it is Carr,  and then watch you all implode with anger at his selection and when he fails.

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« #10 : March 02, 2014, 06:52:38 AM »

GLennon has proven he has a high IQ. He is taller than most and has a strong arm. He is not fast or elusive, but neither are Peyton Manning, Brady, or Ryan, Glennon was thrown into a totally negative situation that no QB could thrive in. Manning looked like crap in the SB. Brady could not carry his team  to the SB, and Ryan led his team to a top 10 pick in the draft. Glennon beat Ryan and the fowl goons. We make excuses for why Ryan had a bad year, yet refuse to make any allowances for our own rookie QB thrown into the worst possible scenario. The coaching and schemes will be better. Hopefully he will have better protection, a ground attack, and more than one decent receiver to throw to. It would not take much to challenge any record that Freeman set. He has 13 games of experience to build on. It is only fair to give him the opportunity with a competent coaching staff. Let him prove his true worth.

jerseybucsfan

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« #11 : March 02, 2014, 07:06:41 AM »

GLennon has proven he has a high IQ. He is taller than most and has a strong arm. He is not fast or elusive, but neither are Peyton Manning, Brady, or Ryan, Glennon was thrown into a totally negative situation that no QB could thrive in. Manning looked like crap in the SB. Brady could not carry his team  to the SB, and Ryan led his team to a top 10 pick in the draft. Glennon beat Ryan and the fowl goons. We make excuses for why Ryan had a bad year, yet refuse to make any allowances for our own rookie QB thrown into the worst possible scenario. The coaching and schemes will be better. Hopefully he will have better protection, a ground attack, and more than one decent receiver to throw to. It would not take much to challenge any record that Freeman set. He has 13 games of experience to build on. It is only fair to give him the opportunity with a competent coaching staff. Let him prove his true worth.
This can be backed up by the possibility, even probability, that no sure fire QB upgrade us available. In a deep draft where surer upgrades are (at lb, td, de, WR, TE), it makes more sense to go bpa rather than reach for a QB.

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tbc_bucs

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« #12 : March 02, 2014, 07:24:16 AM »

I'm not ready to hand Glennon the keys. I am willing to let him compete. There's a big difference there.

That being said, here is my take. Glennon was +10 in TD:INT ratio, in that terrible run n shoot offense that teams in the league have figured out. To me, he played well. Second, taking away vjax, look who he was throwing to! An apparently not-so-dedicated Mike Williams who was gone as soon as he got a chance and a cast of clowns who would be borderline 6th receivers or Practice Squad players on most teams. Then the oline was inconsistent, or fairly consistently bad in pass pro, depending on how you wanna look at it!

I'm not proclaiming Glennon King here. He has flaws. But let's not call him a scrub until we see what the new staff has planned for him.


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« #13 : March 02, 2014, 08:44:40 AM »

     If Glennon had a coaching staff willing to gameplan to his strengths (quick-read, decisive decision-maker, strong and accurate arm) instead of forcing him into running for his life behind a so-so O'line while waiting for long-developing routes to come open, he'd have had a much more productive season.
    As it was, he STILL managed to be the best rookie QB of last year's draft. And that's with limited time in TC (if any) with the starting team.
     I wonder how many W's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would've had in a Bucs' uni with the SAME teammates and coaches Glennon had last season...
     I find it very doubtful the Bucs take a QB early in the draft; we have way too many other holes to fill; there are no Andrew Luck's in this year's draft. The college success of these 'top' QBs in this year's draft are not being realistically translated to an NFL level by the casual fans, hence the resulting Glennon-bash-mania...

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« #14 : March 02, 2014, 09:15:59 AM »

Steady. Composed. Decent arm. Tall. Decent pocket mobility for his build.

One year of experience.


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