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CalcuttaRain

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« : March 06, 2014, 01:27:27 PM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

worth reading the whole thing, but here is the proposal:

Leaders of all sides should return to examining outcomes, not compete in posturing. Here is my notion of an outcome compatible with the values and security interests of all sides:

1. Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe.

2. Ukraine should not join NATO, a position I took seven years ago, when it last came up.

3. Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. Internationally, they should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland. That nation leaves no doubt about its fierce independence and cooperates with the West in most fields but carefully avoids institutional hostility toward Russia.

4. It is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea. But it should be possible to put Crimea’s relationship to Ukraine on a less fraught basis. To that end, Russia would recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty over Crimea. Ukraine should reinforce Crimea’s autonomy in elections held in the presence of international observers. The process would include removing any ambiguities about the status of the Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol.

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Bucfucious

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« #1 : March 06, 2014, 01:37:02 PM »

If the Ukrainians want to be free, they better pick up a gun.

CalcuttaRain

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« #2 : March 07, 2014, 10:47:02 AM »

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/putin-not-backing-down-ukraine-crisis-despite-obama-call-n46711

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CalcuttaRain

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« #3 : March 07, 2014, 10:48:59 AM »

If the Ukrainians want to be free, they better pick up a gun.

actually, didn't they already secure their freedom and right to a defense by the US and UK (and maybe Germany)? I thought the Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons in exchange for a guarantee that their border would stay in place?  Could be wrong

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olafberserker

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« #4 : March 07, 2014, 01:41:51 PM »

vin mad.   locking and then opening his thread to take pot shots at people:

http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1314444.0.html

Wanna take the wager?   You have 30 or more off topic posts in that thread about other posters to maybe a dozen by me.   Be careful vin, you were warned before about saying things that weren't true on here.   Nobody's stalking you.




CalcuttaRain

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« #5 : March 07, 2014, 02:03:55 PM »

exhibit B

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CalcuttaRain

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« #6 : March 07, 2014, 02:05:33 PM »

vin mad.   locking and then opening his thread to take pot shots at people:

http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1314444.0.html

Wanna take the wager?   You have 30 or more off topic posts in that thread about other posters to maybe a dozen by me.  Be careful vin, you were warned before about saying things that weren't true on here.   Nobody's stalking you.

03/07/2014 13:41:51 Re: Interesting take on Ukraine Pirate's Cove 36
03/07/2014 11:39:03 Re: A good reason why not to raise your daughter as a spoiled brat Pirate's Cove 356
03/07/2014 08:37:56 Re: Cat & Mouse at the IRS Pirate's Cove 365
03/07/2014 08:36:11 Re: Cat & Mouse at the IRS Pirate's Cove 365
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the threat -- again -- and the stalking- again
« : March 07, 2014, 02:13:40 PM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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CalcuttaRain

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« #7 : March 08, 2014, 11:42:30 AM »

the genie escaping the bottle:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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CalcuttaRain

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« #8 : March 08, 2014, 04:16:49 PM »

shots fired

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/08/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140308

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Cyrus

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« #9 : March 08, 2014, 04:19:40 PM »

shots fired


You knew it wouldn't be long until he hijacked his own thread to talk about guns.

CalcuttaRain

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« #10 : March 08, 2014, 04:23:05 PM »

floundering:

"Secretary of State John Kerry phoned Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Saturday and issued a diplomatic ultimatum, according to a senior U.S. administration official.
"He made clear that continued military escalation and provocation in Crimea or elsewhere in Ukraine, along with steps to annex Crimea to Russia would close any available space for diplomacy, and he urged utmost restraint," the official said.

Kerry said the United States is ready to work with allies to facilitate a Ukraine-Russia dialogue, the official said."

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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CalcuttaRain

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« #11 : March 09, 2014, 11:00:37 AM »

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-forces-seize-crimean-border-guard-post-n48221

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CalcuttaRain

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« #12 : March 10, 2014, 12:39:58 PM »

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/10/russian-troops-seize-hospital-missile-base-in-ukraine-crimea/

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CalcuttaRain

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« #13 : April 16, 2014, 01:36:16 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/opinion/ghitis-ukraine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

(CNN) -- The mysterious, faceless green men have entered eastern Ukraine, looking much like they did last month in Crimea before Russia sliced off and swallowed that former province of Ukraine.

What will President Barack Obama do now?

Unlike Russia's Crimea invasion, the Ukrainian government is not rolling over as readily this time, vowing not "to let the Crimea scenario repeat." That is just what Russian President Vladimir Putin needs to justify an open military assault under the guise of "protecting" Ukraine's ethnic Russians. The possibility that war will break out is real.

U.S. officials are convinced that the disciplined militias -- who have taken over government buildings in more than half a dozen Ukrainian cities, wearing no identifying marks on their uniforms -- are Russian special forces or "paid operatives," deliberately stoking unrest, not part of a spontaneous groundswell of pro-Russia sentiment. Still, America's warnings of serious repercussions have fallen on deaf ears.

With the crisis continuing to escalate, Obama can choose between four courses of action.

1. Stop making empty threats

Obama has repeatedly warned that "there will be costs" if Russia takes over Ukraine's territory. But that is exactly what Russia did. Efforts to line up European support for stern sanctions have faltered badly. The West's growl, its bark, seems increasingly toothless. The sanctions so far are underwhelming.

Washington and its friends need to impose real sanctions and offer Ukraine real support, or else America's warnings will be meaningless. Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry still give the impression, despite ample evidence to the contrary, that they think diplomacy and reasoning can dissuade Putin from pushing ahead with his goal to dominate Ukraine, fearing that harsh sanctions will provoke him.

But one way to reverse the course is to exact a harsh economic and political cost while keeping open a way for Moscow to roll back.

Obama must make a decision: If the U.S. is not ready to impose muscular sanctions, it's time to stop issuing threats. America's "red lines" risk becoming an international punch line. Feeble threats against Russia's "incredible act of aggression" are hurting the U.S., making it look like a paper tiger and making its friends more vulnerable.

Grave warnings of consequences without consequences do more harm than good.

2. Decide where to build a moat

If the U.S. is not willing to take risks for the sake of Ukraine, it is time to decide what part of the map matters. After World War II, the U.S. came to a decision to reluctantly allow Soviet control of Eastern Europe while protecting the western side of the Iron Curtain. That was a cold calculation for which the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia and elsewhere paid a steep price. But it sent a clear message to Moscow to stop at the edge of that military and ideological barrier.

Washington could just as coldly concede Ukraine, or part of it, to Russia and build a (figurative) moat around it or choose another place on the map to do that. The U.S. must decide how far is too far. It wasn't Crimea. Is it eastern Ukraine, western Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic states?

Opinion: U.S. giving Putin green light in Ukraine?

3. Consider military action

The chances that the U.S. will go to war over Ukraine are extremely small, but the option exists. If Russia unleashes its military power across the border, the folder marked "military action" will land on the table in the situation room.

Wars are unpredictable and always bring unexpected consequences. Fighting on the border of the European Union will put NATO on high alert and trigger a new set of possible outcomes. If Ukraine and Russia go to war, the calculations will change drastically and dangerously.

4. Say goodbye and good luck to Ukraine

There's one more option for Obama. He can turn his back on Ukraine, wish it well and move on. The U.S. could make a decision that it would rather try to continue working with Putin on issues like Iran and Syria, and allow Russia to do what it wishes in "its part" of the world.

It's a course of action that would satisfy American isolationists, as well as those who accept Russian claims that the troubles are America and Europe's fault. That, unfortunately, would invite even more challenges to world peace, as it would empower bullies everywhere.

American policy aims, unsuccessfully, toward option No. 1, but the threats are far ahead of the action.

Several weeks ago, I suggested that there was a chance that "when the stakes grow high enough, the U.S. and Europe may rise to the challenge." That may yet happen. But so far it has not.

Putin's platoons of masked green men are wreaking havoc in Ukraine, and the U.S. still hasn't quite decided how it plans to respond. In the long run, Russia will suffer from the ill will it has engendered with its bullying tactics. But in the short and medium term, it is gaining ground.


Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Bucfucious

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« #14 : April 16, 2014, 03:04:29 PM »

If the Ukrainians are as dumb as Americans, just give 'em some free phones and they'll be aight.
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