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CalcuttaRain

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#15 : March 07, 2014, 08:42:01 AM

Love this response:

"I'll take our defense against any offense in the division."
 
sure to drive some to distraction . . even with the Seahawks crushing the vaunted Broncos offense

Many on this board will use this comment against Lovie:

"Smith wrapped up his Q&A with this: "You have four crucial phases to become relevant in the NFL. First is defense. You have to have a solid defense in the league if you want to compete for championships. Second is special teams, we'll win many games this season with our special teams play. Third is offense, we can have a productive offense with a strong running game and the ability to take shots outside. The final piece is you - the fans. You are really part of the defense. You have to cheer loudly when we're on defense and be as quiet as you can when we're on offense. If you're there, you can make the difference. I know a lot of you have already renewed your season tickets and thats great. We need you. For those of you who haven't yet....get on the train. We're going to make it worth it. We know we haven't been fulling our end on the football field but that will change. "

we'll hear variations of "ugh . .  see . .  he has offense as the last priority"

You say ugh because defense doesn't win championships. That is dead easy to disprove. Teams with defense have won championships but teams wearing blue have won championships as well. Correlation <> causation. Teams, please don't even get me started how borderline retarded it is to say teams matter in this league. Again, I'm sure some SB teams had good teams but there is no tie between doing that well and winning. I think the idea of running and using a high variation passing attack has been disproven so many times it doesn't even need to discussed.

Yeah, that discussion is bad and it would be safe to characterize it as grossly ignorant.

right on cue

we watched different Super Bowls, I guess . .  . or maybe the Seahawks won because they wear blue  :D

implied in my comment was that people would take anything Lovie says to an extreme, so in this instance he was ONLY defense and INCOMPETENT offense

Seahawks played strong defense, yes. They were a historically good defense in fact. Planning for that is a mistake. Plus, again, I didn't say you can't win playing good defense but you can't win playing bad offense. Give me two teams: Great offense, bad defense, bad team and bad offense, great teams and great defense and you are goona be looking at the former being a playoff team anhd the latter drafting in the top 10. Defense becomes a factor only after offense has created a baseline.

Fact of the matter is I think he really believes in that stupid - plenty of people (looking at you) do as well. Thing is what he has done hiring Tedford says that his faith in his dying gods has been shaken and he knows reality doesn't allow the flat earth approach the football anymore.

Dal, he wants to run the ball too and "we" all know running the ball has no place in the modern NFL ---- talk about "dying gods" and "flat earth approach"  I think I will turn in my tickets and maybe become a Seattle fan . .  I love the way they win . . .oh . . . wait.  ;)


Dal, you make fair points but this is one of your common approaches and it is unnecessary given the other facts you call up:  "They were a historically good defense in fact. Planning for that is a mistake"   That strawman does not exist in the statements in this article.  There is nothing in there that says that the Bucs plan is solely to have a historically good defense . . .that is turning another sides position into an extreme so that you can knock it down.  The Bucs will, no doubt, emphasize defense . .   like many teams in the NFL, particularly those that do NOT have Tom Brady or Manning etc. .. . .  but not to the exclusion of all things.  Just a guess

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dalbuc

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#16 : March 07, 2014, 08:52:23 AM

Dal, he wants to run the ball too and "we" all know running the ball has no place in the modern NFL ---- talk about "dying gods" and "flat earth approach"  I think I will turn in my tickets and maybe become a Seattle fan . .  I love the way they win . . .oh . . . wait.  ;)

One more time because people have a hard time figuring this out, they run because they are winning, they are not winning because they run.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

youngone

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#17 : March 07, 2014, 08:53:12 AM

Must've been for the club seaters , they didn't invite my lowly 300 level ass to this gathering , lol.
LOL

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#18 : March 07, 2014, 09:03:22 AM

I don't have a problem with Lovie saying this. I didn't like any of Schiano's quotes about Stone Age football, but I don't think that is what Lovie is saying.

What he is saying is that historically, when most bad teams make the leap to being good, they do it with defense. Eventually, you make a stand against a good team and say, "No more." Everyone will tell you the moment Dungy's Bucs arrived was when they beat the crap out of the 49ers in 1997. A lot of people thought Carolina's super physical week 1 loss against Seattle this year signified how good they were going to be.

I don't think Lovie is saying his goal is to play Dungyball and win the Super Bowl 13-10. I think he's just saying the defense is going to be ahead of the offense and will be the first piece of the puzzle.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

CalcuttaRain

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#19 : March 07, 2014, 09:07:14 AM

Dal, he wants to run the ball too and "we" all know running the ball has no place in the modern NFL ---- talk about "dying gods" and "flat earth approach"  I think I will turn in my tickets and maybe become a Seattle fan . .  I love the way they win . . .oh . . . wait.  ;)

One more time because people have a hard time figuring this out, they run because they are winning, they are not winning because they run.

Dal, I don't follows stats like you do, but if one looks back at the Seahawks run in the playoffs or even over the season, are the following generally true, statistically speaking;

1. their defense was a top performer in takeaways?
2. their offense was efficient, so their takeaway/giveaways were probably a net positive?
3. their run/pass mixture was close to even?
4. if #1-3 are accurate, they played with the lead a bit?
5. if #4 is accurate, they ran to keep possession, run the clock, in essence to salt away games?


I don't know. I have never looked, those are just my guesses, but if those things are even roughly accurate, how are they different than what Lovie seems to want?. . . a tough defense that emphasizes turnovers, a special trams that helps with field position, an efficient offense and a running game? Also, isn't the Seattle approach a commonly-desired approach in the NFL and particularly by teams with less than HOF QBs?

EDIT:  just looking at the stats to  answer my own questions and, I could be wrong, but it looks like Seattle had one of the better average starting field positions last year (turnovers/defense/special teams, right?) and seemed to hold the ball well, near the top, again (efficiency/running)?  Not easy to pull off as well, but that sounds like Lovie's thoughts, doesn't it?
: March 07, 2014, 09:24:25 AM VinBucFan

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Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dalbuc

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#20 : March 07, 2014, 09:24:58 AM

In CHI Lovie wanted to battering ram his foes with the run from the start. Passing was an ultima ratio. Very similar to what Rutgers wanted to do. Running is great. I love me some Norv Turner and in fantasy ball I always want Norv Turner RB...but Norv gets it. Go back to the DAL days, Aikman was statistically as good as Marino or Elway in the first half. Difference was in the second half Aikman had leads, a defense that could hold the lead and a run game to salt it away so he didn't have to throw. Obviously you want to do everything well on the football field. Give me a #1 defense, offense and the best teams and I will win games - a lot of them.  When you start saying you can't have it all and what are you willing to lose the two things you can't shed and still succeed are pass offense and pass defense.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

CalcuttaRain

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#21 : March 07, 2014, 09:31:38 AM

the two things you can't shed and still succeed are pass offense and pass defense.

passing - Seattle was statistically pretty average, right?  efficient for sure, but not big numbers?
pass defense -- very good, lots of turnovers, lots of pressure


That sounds like Lovie to me.  He has said they Bucs need pressure from their front 4 and that his defense emphasizes turnovers.

It looks like what you think wins is similar to Seattle's approach, which seems to match up with Lovie's expressed thoughts now


Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dalbuc

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#22 : March 07, 2014, 09:41:24 AM

Passing is always about efficiency not effectiveness (think the difference between passer rating and pass offense rank). SEA was outstanding being efficient.

It is really about emphasis. Passing can't be something you are either afraid to do or don't want to do and only do as a last resort.  Running twice and throwing on long 3rd downs is a disaster waiting to happen. Trying to run over teams in the first half doesn't really work in the NFL very well. Trying to muddle through a game keeping it close and win in Q4 is a bad mentality. You need to come out willing and able to throw to build a lead and run and play defense to hold it...and yes that is by and large what SEA was able to do and by and large what Lovie failed to do in CHI - the get ahead part.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

seanbassak

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#23 : March 07, 2014, 09:45:51 AM

I don't have a problem with anything he said. In fact his confidence in our defense is encouraging. I think he'll end up being mostly hands off with the offense and let Tedford handle it, therefore I don't think we're going to be running a Cretaceous period offense. I'm all for building this team on a strong defense because so many of the truly good football teams the past decade have done the same. The steelers when they won their SB, Baltimore, Seattle, San Fran, Carolina. We need to be strong on defense to compete in the NFC south. I'm hoping Lovie stays mostly hands off the offense haha

Not living, just killing time.

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#24 : March 07, 2014, 09:47:05 AM

In CHI Lovie wanted to battering ram his foes with the run from the start. Passing was an ultima ratio. Very similar to what Rutgers wanted to do. Running is great. I love me some Norv Turner and in fantasy ball I always want Norv Turner RB...but Norv gets it. Go back to the DAL days, Aikman was statistically as good as Marino or Elway in the first half. Difference was in the second half Aikman had leads, a defense that could hold the lead and a run game to salt it away so he didn't have to throw. Obviously you want to do everything well on the football field. Give me a #1 defense, offense and the best teams and I will win games - a lot of them.  When you start saying you can't have it all and what are you willing to lose the two things you can't shed and still succeed are pass offense and pass defense.
I think there's a chance Tedford has some Norv in him. Tedford had a stable of running backs who consistently put up good numbers, and not in a ground-and-pound way.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#25 : March 07, 2014, 09:50:23 AM

Cover TWO SHELL?

Who would have thought 449?

Horses mouth.

😉

He was of course asked about Revis, to which he answered, "When people hear Tampa Two they believe we'll be in a cover two shell all the time. That's not what we do. We'll play a lot of Man. A lot of other coverages. When its an obvious passing situation, Cover Two is our primary go to alignment but it won't be that exclusively. We have a need  for all types of good corners and Darrelle is one."

Are you gonna bump his thread or shall I? Lol


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#26 : March 07, 2014, 10:10:16 AM

Great Football Coach. Horrible Helmet and Uniforms.

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#27 : March 07, 2014, 10:11:54 AM

"We want to make sure we can run the football. We want to be physical up front running the football," Tedford said. "We want to be diverse. We want to get speed in space; multiple personnel, formations. We'll use tempo, change tempo from time to time. The big thing is to make sure we give the players the answers to the test; put them in positions to be successful. Preparation is key."

Doesn't sound like Schiano.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Boid Fink

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#28 : March 07, 2014, 10:23:49 AM

Lol!

It's cool. I have said some variant of a cover2 all along. Or a cover-zone scheme. All the same with a few tweaks.

Lovie is a zone defense guy. Cover2/3 alignment is what he will use. Mostly.

As I said.

And I LOVE Revis. Would hate to see him leave, but if the right offer comes, Revis will be traded. Just a su**CENSORED**ion I started to get as soon as Lovie was hired. I think it would be silly to get rid of him for anything less than a Kings Ransom.


CalcuttaRain

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#29 : March 07, 2014, 10:37:08 AM

Passing is always about efficiency not effectiveness (think the difference between passer rating and pass offense rank). SEA was outstanding being efficient.

It is really about emphasis. Passing can't be something you are either afraid to do or don't want to do and only do as a last resort.  Running twice and throwing on long 3rd downs is a disaster waiting to happen. Trying to run over teams in the first half doesn't really work in the NFL very well. Trying to muddle through a game keeping it close and win in Q4 is a bad mentality. You need to come out willing and able to throw to build a lead and run and play defense to hold it...and yes that is by and large what SEA was able to do and by and large what Lovie failed to do in CHI - the get ahead part.

got it, thanks Dal

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center
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