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CalcuttaRain

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#60 : May 08, 2014, 12:06:39 PM

And now I have exceeded my interest in the argument you bring to the boards so regularly.


Trying.....hard.....to.....find....any....level....of....sympathy........................nope, none here.

Exactly! Kudos to the person exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

kudos to the person for killing the bad guy, but thats not "exercising their 2nd amendment rights".  See Heller . . . . well, unless the 2nd amendment doesnt exist in NJ, as one example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-declines-to-review-new-jerseys-handgun-permit-law/2014/05/05/25f0fcd6-d457-11e3-95d3-3bcd77cd4e11_story.html

 ;)

You started the thread Vin.

I know, I have several accounts

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CalcuttaRain

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#61 : May 08, 2014, 12:09:20 PM

I must say I am stunned at how this thread has unfolded once a certain poster got involved.  Stunned, I tell you.

as am I stunned that you are here doing what you do . . . posting ABOUT ME . . . .  lol . . .. . oh . . . and that you're wrong AGAIN . .  . as usual. 


Buggsy, do you have any thoughts about the event that is the subject of this thread or about whether we should hold off on universal background checks in favor of more effort on mental health?











(any bets?)
: May 08, 2014, 12:11:12 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

DonkeyHunter

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#62 : May 08, 2014, 01:40:56 PM


To the rest - it appears now that we actually agree more than we disagree; that is, you seem to be accepting of universal background checks AND mental health efforts.  As for the research, I don't even contest that having more mental health hospitals would be a good thing I only took issue, so to speak, with the notion that doing so to the exclusion of background checks would make sense because identifying potentially violent people pre-shoot up is the "low hanging fruit" of gun control or lower hanging fruit than filling out a form and waiting a couple days, but we agree it seems . .  so that's good.

No, Vin. It's "WE". WE are accepting of universal background checks and mental health efforts. WE meaning both sides, not just pro-gun. I've been all aboard this idea from the beginning. THIS is what will help, not ridiculous restrictions.


In many bassin\' circles, trolling is often considered the lowest form of fishing - Jim Porter

CalcuttaRain

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#63 : May 08, 2014, 01:49:10 PM


To the rest - it appears now that we actually agree more than we disagree; that is, you seem to be accepting of universal background checks AND mental health efforts.  As for the research, I don't even contest that having more mental health hospitals would be a good thing I only took issue, so to speak, with the notion that doing so to the exclusion of background checks would make sense because identifying potentially violent people pre-shoot up is the "low hanging fruit" of gun control or lower hanging fruit than filling out a form and waiting a couple days, but we agree it seems . .  so that's good.

No, Vin. It's "WE". WE are accepting of universal background checks and mental health efforts. WE meaning both sides, not just pro-gun. I've been all aboard this idea from the beginning. THIS is what will help, not ridiculous restrictions.

well, I hope that is true.  I have never seen a gun control proponent say we should ignore mental health issues (maybe it happens, who knows) but I have seen a pro-gun person say universal background checks are not part of the "solution." In fact, I think that is the official position of the gun lobby, but maybe this is the way things change . . grass roots



Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

DonkeyHunter

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#64 : May 08, 2014, 02:02:42 PM

Sure, I'll start it. Lol.

In many bassin\' circles, trolling is often considered the lowest form of fishing - Jim Porter

dbucfan

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#65 : May 09, 2014, 08:59:48 AM

Just checked - I did say argument as opposed to thread....

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CalcuttaRain

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#66 : May 09, 2014, 09:07:16 AM

Just checked - I did say argument as opposed to thread....

lol

 
And now I have exceeded my interest in the argument you bring to the boards so regularly.

 ;)
: May 09, 2014, 09:08:49 AM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

olafberserker

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#67 : May 10, 2014, 10:43:08 AM

Well what do we have here?

CalcuttaRain

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#68 : May 13, 2014, 12:30:11 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626480/Teen-planned-Columbine-style-massacre-denies-charges.html

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

DonkeyHunter

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#69 : May 13, 2014, 02:27:11 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626480/Teen-planned-Columbine-style-massacre-denies-charges.html

Is this just a link to an article or are you trying to make a point?

In many bassin\' circles, trolling is often considered the lowest form of fishing - Jim Porter

CalcuttaRain

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#70 : May 13, 2014, 10:18:32 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626480/Teen-planned-Columbine-style-massacre-denies-charges.html

Is this just a link to an article or are you trying to make a point?

2 points actually:

1. Not realistic to expect people to identify a dangerous "insane" person before event. More likely the person is coddled by a family that can't cope (see Lanza, FedEx killer etc)   This guys dad enabled him. Only caught because of lucky and vigilant citizen

2. Assault rifles - mass murders if this type are copy car killers so this kid was copying Columbine and Boston Marathon so he had pressure cooker bombs and the assault rifle, lots of ammo and multiple gun. Pretty typical mo.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

DonkeyHunter

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#71 : May 13, 2014, 10:56:28 AM


2 points actually:

Quote
1. Not realistic to expect people to identify a dangerous "insane" person before event. More likely the person is coddled by a family that can't cope (see Lanza, FedEx killer etc)   This guys dad enabled him. Only caught because of lucky and vigilant citizen

Okay. I'm not going to agree that the Dad enabled him. However, I'm not saying that what the Dad did was right. But, if it's not realistic to expect people to identify a dangerous person; then what's YOUR solution to this?

Quote
2. Assault rifles - mass murders if this type are copy car killers so this kid was copying Columbine and Boston Marathon so he had pressure cooker bombs and the assault rifle, lots of ammo and multiple gun. Pretty typical mo.

Assault rifles? Are you serious? Let's see, unless you can find the complete inventory of what this kid had; we can conclude that the SKS was the only semi-automatic rifle that he had. Along with a 9mm (you know, one of those handguns that are more responsible for mass shootings than semi-automatic rifles), and a .22 gun. The SKS isn't even an assault rifle! Typical MO? This kid had designed and built 6 homemade CLAYMORE BOMBS! I'll give you credit for your stance and arguments in favor of the Gun Control Agenda, but this is ridiculous! It's a complete and total biased view that reveals your disdain toward "Assault Rifles". The kid had f*cking bombs (claymores...which are designed to maim) and was going to set them off in a playground. Yet you, along with the gun-control crowd, look past this and point to the big, bad assault rifle he had (which wasn't an assault rifle). I can't help but to simply shake my head in disbelief.

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CalcuttaRain

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#72 : May 13, 2014, 11:35:25 AM


2 points actually:

Quote
1. Not realistic to expect people to identify a dangerous "insane" person before event. More likely the person is coddled by a family that can't cope (see Lanza, FedEx killer etc)   This guys dad enabled him. Only caught because of lucky and vigilant citizen

Okay. I'm not going to agree that the Dad enabled him. However, I'm not saying that what the Dad did was right. But, if it's not realistic to expect people to identify a dangerous person; then what's YOUR solution to this?

Quote
2. Assault rifles - mass murders if this type are copy car killers so this kid was copying Columbine and Boston Marathon so he had pressure cooker bombs and the assault rifle, lots of ammo and multiple gun. Pretty typical mo.

Assault rifles? Are you serious? Let's see, unless you can find the complete inventory of what this kid had; we can conclude that the SKS was the only semi-automatic rifle that he had. Along with a 9mm (you know, one of those handguns that are more responsible for mass shootings than semi-automatic rifles), and a .22 gun. The SKS isn't even an assault rifle! Typical MO? This kid had designed and built 6 homemade CLAYMORE BOMBS! I'll give you credit for your stance and arguments in favor of the Gun Control Agenda, but this is ridiculous! It's a complete and total biased view that reveals your disdain toward "Assault Rifles". The kid had f*cking bombs (claymores...which are designed to maim) and was going to set them off in a playground. Yet you, along with the gun-control crowd, look past this and point to the big, bad assault rifle he had (which wasn't an assault rifle). I can't help but to simply shake my head in disbelief.

On #2, sorry but that is a discussion I also have with Spartan.  When I say "assault rifles" I mean it in the broadest, non-gun owner's sense, not the technical distinction you are making. The kid had bombs because bombs were used at Columbine and specifically pressure cooker bombs because they were used at the Boston Marathon (i.e., what the kid saw on tv).  My point was that a kid like this is doing what kids do today . .  he is watching television and then copying what he sees.  Handguns guns do kill more people BUT it is beyond doubt that today, in this world, if you are a kid and you want to commit suicide because you are bullied or lonely or just crazy, you no longer drive your car off a cliff (like the 1950s) or overdose (like the 1960s or 1970s)  today you go out in a blaze of glory . .  .and if that is your plan . .  you do NOT first think handgun . . . you think about dressing up in body armor, getting a lot of ammo, maybe some homemade bombs and  . . .an "assault rifle." Here's an example, post Sandy Hook

"Michael Brandon Hill, 20, walked into Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Decatur, Ga., outside Atlanta with an AK-47 type assault rifle, along with bags containing hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a couple of magazines on Tuesday, DeKalb County officials announced at a press conference on Wednesday. "

"He walked in with 498 rounds of ammunition. Fortunately this came to an end quietly, without incident," Alexander said. "I think we can all make a reasonable assumption he came here to do some harm."

Hill "did not have anything else in the bag that would harm people," Davis told reporters. Only one weapon was recovered, authorities said Wednesday, contradicting earlier reports that he had multiple firearms.


Before he left he took a "selfie":

A photo of Hill holding a rifle, believed to be the same one used in Tuesday's shooting, was found on Hill's cellphone, Davis said.



Turning back to this event, this is from the article:

LaDue was arrested on April 29 after a concerned citizen saw him enter a southern Minnesota storage unit. LaDue reportedly admitted his intricate plans after being arrested, with police seizing an SKS assault rifle with 400 rounds of ammunition, a 9mm handgun with ammo and a gun safe with five more firearms, all in his bedroom at the family home.

Perhaps its just poor writing, but that reads to me like he had 400 rounds FOR THE SKS, right?

Is this an SKS?



: May 13, 2014, 11:38:42 AM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

DonkeyHunter

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#73 : May 13, 2014, 01:06:36 PM

This is an SKS.





^^^^^^^

This is not an assault rifle.





THIS is an HK416. THIS is an assault rifle. This was my weapon during the last few years of my service. One that I purchased after getting my Class 3 license (and fortunately know someone at HK, so I got somewhat of a discount).

And again, I ask you, what's YOUR definition of an "assault rifle"? And I'd also like to know what the non-gun owner's definition of an "assault rifle".
: May 13, 2014, 01:09:37 PM DonkeyHunter

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CalcuttaRain

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#74 : May 13, 2014, 01:23:20 PM

And again, I ask you, what's YOUR definition of an "assault rifle"? And I'd also like to know what the non-gun owner's definition of an "assault rifle".

I would imagine that my definition is the same as the non-gun-owner definition and that would be a military style rifle.  I think the difference lies in that you are a professional, so to speak, and so you define the guns by their capability.  I doubt most of these kids define the guns by their capabilities as much as by the look, other than perhaps the ability to hold ammunition or clips. In other words, the Denver Theater shooter likely chose a military style assault rifle in part because of the 100 round clip, but also because it fit the "fantasy,"  Same thing probably with Adam Lanza and definitely with the Santa Monica killer and the Atlanta guy seemed to not know much about guns and still chose an "assault rifle," which suggest the copy cat MO I mentioned and supports the point I was making. 

I realize its not a perfect concept (none are) because the VTech guy used handguns, some of these guys had other weapons and the FedEx guy had a shotgun, but it is still pretty hard to argue that the military-style rifle does not fit with the "blaze of glory", school/work/crowded venue shooting . . . not even sure that is surprising when one looks at how the weapons are marketed and at video games etc.(Columbine guys and Lanza were big gamers).

I have said that military-style weapons like these are the "low hanging fruit" of gun control not because of the number of people killed by them but because: 1) they are often brought to the wider population's attention through media event killings and  2) have so little value to most of the population.  Because that is the way most non-gun owners see and hear about these types of weapons they don't really care about the technical/capabilities distinction that I am sure you correctly make. That is not meant in any way as a criticism. In fact, its meant as an acknowledgement that I am not a gun expert, but with the caveat that the expertise is not really the issue, at least from the majority of the public's perspective.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center
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