Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Top 10 most important Bucs D players in last 10 seasons? « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 3 4 5

Booker Reese

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8189
Offline
#60 : March 29, 2007, 01:31:39 PM

Easy to find 10, hard to rank them:

1. Sapp
2. Brooks
3. Hardy
4. Rice
5. Barber
6. Lynch
7. Quarles
8. Kelly
9. Abraham
10. Dirty Jack

Honorable mention - Booger (NT days), Culpepper, and Spires.

dalbuc

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 21589
Offline
#61 : March 29, 2007, 01:56:19 PM

I think the thing that will push Barber into the Hall is the fact that he is the ONLY cornerback to be in the 20/20 club, which is 20 sacks and 20 picks. In fact he is in the 30/20 club because he has 31 carreer picks and 20 sacks. Those are GREAT numbers. For Lynch I believe he should make it, he has registered at least one pick every year of his career except last year. The only problem is that there are like only 2 safetys in the Hall or something like that, they just dont get any respect.

Barber will be dogged by "system CB". The voters love Champ Bailey type CB's despite that Bailey is also a system CB since he'd be lousy in our system.

Lynch is gonna have to fight the S thing and the question of if he was even the best S of his generation. I think he's also on the outs.

Sapp and Brooks are the two safe HoF'ers (although I have some worried about DB). Rice and Barber are the next most likely and Lynch behind them.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BucJam07

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2428
Offline
#62 : March 29, 2007, 02:57:12 PM

Lynch is the prototypical SS for this revolutionary Cover 2 defense. He gets in no question. There hasn't been a better SS in this now league-wide system since him and he still lays the wood and gets to Pro Bowls. Along with Sapp and Brooks, He's a first ballot guy IMO.




You Can't Spell SCUM Without The

dalbuc

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 21589
Offline
#63 : March 29, 2007, 03:53:16 PM

There hasn't been a better SS in this now league-wide system

In terms of SS Lynch clearly isn't the best SS of his generation.

Lynch (15 years) 695 tackles, 26 INT, 12 sacks, 60 passes defensed and 16 forced fumbles.

Harrison (14 years) 854 tackles, 32 INT, 28.5 sacks, 73 passes defensed and 14 forced fumbles.

Given how sparse the S position is in the HoF you can't make Lynch better than Harrison and if only S in a generation is prone to get in it has to be Harrison before Lynch.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Booker Reese

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8189
Offline
#64 : March 29, 2007, 05:22:02 PM

Lynch is the prototypical SS for this revolutionary Cover 2 defense. He gets in no question. There hasn't been a better SS in this now league-wide system since him and he still lays the wood and gets to Pro Bowls. Along with Sapp and Brooks, He's a first ballot guy IMO.

Hate to burst your bubble, but definitely no. Dalbuc stole my thunder a bit, but there are only 8 safeties in the HOF, the most recent guy who played being Ronnie Lott (and he's the only one from as recent as the 80s). Lynch will not only face Harrison (who's also going to get a Patriot "dynasty" bump), but Brian Dawkins, Darren Sharper, and depending on retirements, votes, Leroy Butler and Darren Woodson. That's going to be tough.

I think it's Sapp and Brooks - that's it. Barber will be discussed, but it's going to come down to the "system" tag. Rice is in the same boat as all the guys who are seen as pass rushers only (or at least mostly) Kevin Greene, Derrick Thomas, Richard Dent, and Jon Randle.

vladin

****
Starter

Posts : 723
Offline
#65 : March 29, 2007, 05:27:38 PM

2 plays by Dwight Smith in the Superbowl... taken back for touch downs... should have been the MvP...  that's pretty important.

finnbluebucs

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5063
Offline
#66 : March 29, 2007, 06:00:59 PM

Brooks, Lynch, Sapp, Rice, Nickerson, Barber, Quarles, Abraham, Culpepper, Kelly.

Honorable mentions to Jackson and Smith who sealed the deal in '02.

\"We are frustrated at not making the playoffs. It is a good start. That is all it is. It is a good start for something that we are going to be in the future. - Josh Freeman

BucJam07

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2428
Offline
#67 : March 29, 2007, 06:11:40 PM

Lynch is the prototypical SS for this revolutionary Cover 2 defense. He gets in no question. There hasn't been a better SS in this now league-wide system since him and he still lays the wood and gets to Pro Bowls. Along with Sapp and Brooks, He's a first ballot guy IMO.

Hate to burst your bubble, but definitely no. Dalbuc stole my thunder a bit, but there are only 8 safeties in the HOF, the most recent guy who played being Ronnie Lott (and he's the only one from as recent as the 80s). Lynch will not only face Harrison (who's also going to get a Patriot "dynasty" bump), but Brian Dawkins, Darren Sharper, and depending on retirements, votes, Leroy Butler and Darren Woodson. That's going to be tough.

I think it's Sapp and Brooks - that's it. Barber will be discussed, but it's going to come down to the "system" tag. Rice is in the same boat as all the guys who are seen as pass rushers only (or at least mostly) Kevin Greene, Derrick Thomas, Richard Dent, and Jon Randle.

Burst my bubble? Read my post a little better! I said..."Lynch is the prototypical SS for this REVOLUTIONARY Cover 2 defense." and "There hasn't been a better SS in this now LEAGUE-WIDE SYSTEM since him, and he still lays the wood and gets to Pro Bowls." The guy was an anchor on a top 3 defense of all time. He was just as punishing as Ronnie Lott and he also covered well for a time. Harrison was a good SS, but his cheap shots and notorious dirty style of play may hamper is HOF status. Lynch has a little less than 100 takles than RH but he has more than 350 over DS. DW seems to have the best "numbers" out of them all. And he leads the Cowboys in all-time takles. But know one remembers the Cowboys for a vaunted defense or Green Bay and San Diego. The 90's best defense was either the Bucs(95-99) or Steelers(94-97).


And Derrick Thomas will be in the HOF soon...for sure.




You Can't Spell SCUM Without The

Booker Reese

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8189
Offline
#68 : March 30, 2007, 10:57:59 AM

Yeah, I can read. If you think Lynch and Ronnie Lott are of the same caliber you need some help. Lott is probably considered the greatest S of all time (I'm pretty sure he made the 75 year team), Lynch was first team All-Pro once, second team All-Pro once.

I don't disagree with you on Harrison - I think he has an uphill climb to get in (I disagree that the style of play will hurt him). But he probably has as good a chance as Lynch, if not better - who cares about SD - people are going to think Pats if he gets in. He's among the leaders in playoff picks and is the only player with at least 25 sacks and 30 picks in NFL history.

If the Bucs had won the SB in '99, and '02, I think Lynch would have a much better chance.

You make fun of Butler and Sharper, but the fact is they made the AP All-Pro team 3 and 2 times respectively.

The guys with the best chances to get in any time soon will be Darren Woodson and Brian Dawkins, and MAYBE one of them gets in. It's just that hard to get in as a S. For what it's worth, Woodson was a four-time first team All-Pro, 5-time Pro-Bowler and the Cowboys all-time leading tackler.

You need to read Peter King, Gooselin, Dr. Z, Lenny Shapiro, and Michael Wilbon - all HOF voters - on how the process works and what type of players get in. I think you'd be surprised. Dr. Z in particular does a nice job of explaining how the timing of certain classes blocks out certain players. 

As for Derrick Thomas - I think he has a decent (better than 50%) chance. But my point is that guys who look like locks because of big sack numbers have trouble if they are only seen as pass rushers. That's why Thomas isn't in.

BucJam07

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2428
Offline
#69 : March 30, 2007, 11:20:45 AM

Yeah, I can read. If you think Lynch and Ronnie Lott are of the same caliber you need some help. Lott is probably considered the greatest S of all time (I'm pretty sure he made the 75 year team), Lynch was first team All-Pro once, second team All-Pro once.

I don't disagree with you on Harrison - I think he has an uphill climb to get in (I disagree that the style of play will hurt him). But he probably has as good a chance as Lynch, if not better - who cares about SD - people are going to think Pats if he gets in. He's among the leaders in playoff picks and is the only player with at least 25 sacks and 30 picks in NFL history.

If the Bucs had won the SB in '99, and '02, I think Lynch would have a much better chance.

You make fun of Butler and Sharper, but the fact is they made the AP All-Pro team 3 and 2 times respectively.

The guys with the best chances to get in any time soon will be Darren Woodson and Brian Dawkins, and MAYBE one of them gets in. It's just that hard to get in as a S. For what it's worth, Woodson was a four-time first team All-Pro, 5-time Pro-Bowler and the Cowboys all-time leading tackler.

You need to read Peter King, Gooselin, Dr. Z, Lenny Shapiro, and Michael Wilbon - all HOF voters - on how the process works and what type of players get in. I think you'd be surprised. Dr. Z in particular does a nice job of explaining how the timing of certain classes blocks out certain players.

As for Derrick Thomas - I think he has a decent (better than 50%) chance. But my point is that guys who look like locks because of big sack numbers have trouble if they are only seen as pass rushers. That's why Thomas isn't in.

Good post...I don't think Derrick Thomas was just a pass rusher. He was an all around ROLB. The guy made plays all over the field. His sacks are high because he played on a defense that lacked talent. He was always the guy who got them over. The guy was a beast and maybe the best LB since LT. If you made a list of best LB's since LT, what would it look like? I say 4. D.Thomas, 2. D.Brooks, 3. J.Seau, 5. Greg Loyd, and 1. Ray Lewis. This list covers an area of what different LB's do differently. DT and GL are pass rushing, playmaking LB's, while Ray Lewis is a ball attacking, hard hitter. J. Seau was an all around type guy and DB just has had spectacular numbers considering he was in a zone defense most of the time. I don't however think Greg Loyd gets into the HOF, or is even close. The other four are locks.




You Can't Spell SCUM Without The

Booker Reese

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8189
Offline
#70 : March 30, 2007, 12:20:46 PM

I agree with you on Thomas - he should be in and I think he gets a bad rap as "just a pass rusher" (as if that's a bad thing). That's a pretty good list of linebackers, and I'd agree with you that Lloyd is a step down from the others. I like Cornelius Bennett - two time AFC Defensive Player of the Year - better than Lloyd. 

I'd be awfully surprised if Brooks, Lewis, and Seau aren't Hall of Famers. I think for younger guys, Urlacher is on the right path - I thought he was a bit overrated for a year or two, but he's back on track. 
Page: 1 ... 3 4 5
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Top 10 most important Bucs D players in last 10 seasons? « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools