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DanTurksGhost

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« #15 : October 24, 2006, 04:20:02 PM »

Trust me, I heard enough to learn that Simms was a guy who EVERYONE thought had a huge upside.  You act like I NEVER pay attention to football man.  Gimme a break, Simms was a sleeper on practically everybodies list.  You gonna deny that?

Tim Couch had a big upside. Akili Smith had a big upside. Ryan Leaf had a big upside. Jim Druckenmiller had a big upside.

What does that have to do with anything? Unfulfilled potential is unfulfilled, period. The guy laid an egg game after game this year, was every defensive lineman's and defensive back's wet dream, and became a bit of a joke around the league. Nice kid, not the right QB for the system.

If having a big upside helps you justify in your mind that Gruden is making a mistake by going with a guy he likes better at the position than the guy you'd rather see back there, then so be it. But all anyone needs to really hear is how Gruden spoke about Simms and how he speaks about Gradkowski to know who the head coach is more enamored with.

Boid Fink

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« #16 : October 24, 2006, 04:23:33 PM »

Trust me, I heard enough to learn that Simms was a guy who EVERYONE thought had a huge upside. You act like I NEVER pay attention to football man. Gimme a break, Simms was a sleeper on practically everybodies list. You gonna deny that?

Tim Couch had a big upside. Akili Smith had a big upside. Ryan Leaf had a big upside. Jim Druckenmiller had a big upside.

What does that have to do with anything? Unfulfilled potential is unfulfilled, period. The guy laid an egg game after game this year, was every defensive lineman's and defensive back's wet dream, and became a bit of a joke around the league. Nice kid, not the right QB for the system.

If having a big upside helps you justify in your mind that Gruden is making a mistake by going with a guy he likes better at the position than the guy you'd rather see back there, then so be it. But all anyone needs to really hear is how Gruden spoke about Simms and how he speaks about Gradkowski to know who the head coach is more enamored with.

Than what does Grad have going for him right now aside from an "upside"?  Don't get it twisted now.  Grads is not a world beater at all right now.  The book will still be out on wether he is a "better fit" for the offense.  A 100 yard performance is far from a good fit...


Pick6

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« #17 : October 24, 2006, 04:29:51 PM »

say what you want, but gradkowski has led a 4th-quarter drive to take the lead in all 3 of his career starts.  if we contain reggie bush, you'd be talking about a kid who started his career with 3 straight 4th-quarter comebacks. the kid moves his team down the field in crunch time in a pretty incredible fashion.

but the way gruden talks about gradkowski that makes me believe he'll be a success more than anything he's done on the field.  even when brad was absolutely robotic running this offense, you didn't hear him as energized or optimistic about this QB. even after simms went 5-1 in the division to finish last year, his praise sounded half-hearted. here's a kid who's got guden fired up even when he's struggling, and you get the sense that gruden isn't even fretting (may not be happy about it, but they don't distress him like simms' batted passes did) over bruce's long-ball woes

he hasn't had this much sheer belief in a QB since gannon. and despite struggling for long stretches of the game, you don't get the sense that the offense was sort of mailing it in like they did the first 3 games of the season. i think you could see simms discouragement reflected in his teammates, and you see them equally responsive to bruce's confidence and battling mentality

for me, it's judgement by feel more than observation, but everyone - the press, his coach, teammates - seem to agree he's got the "it" factor, which is enough for him to keep auditioning in 2006, but only production (wins, not yards) will get him to 2007. so far, so good.

bradentonian

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« #18 : October 24, 2006, 04:32:01 PM »

4th quarter comebacks are not always a good sign.  That means you are not getting it done for 3 quarters.


Boid Fink

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« #19 : October 24, 2006, 04:33:26 PM »

say what you want, but gradkowski has led a 4th-quarter drive to take the lead in all 3 of his career starts. if we contain reggie bush, you'd be talking about a kid who started his career with 3 straight 4th-quarter comebacks. the kid moves his team down the field in crunch time in a pretty incredible fashion.

but the way gruden talks about gradkowski that makes me believe he'll be a success more than anything he's done on the field. even when brad was absolutely robotic running this offense, you didn't hear him as energized or optimistic about this QB. even after simms went 5-1 in the division to finish last year, his praise sounded half-hearted. here's a kid who's got guden fired up even when he's struggling, and you get the sense that gruden isn't even fretting (may not be happy about it, but they don't distress him like simms' batted passes did) over bruce's long-ball woes

he hasn't had this much sheer belief in a QB since gannon.

Gannon had an All Pro line, good running backs in GArner and Wheatley (at the time), Jerry Rice, Tim BRown, and Jerry Porter.

Big difference.

What else is Gruden going to say?  He can't just dump on the kid, because he really hasn't done too much good or bad.


DanTurksGhost

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« #20 : October 24, 2006, 04:33:50 PM »

Than what does Grad have going for him right now aside from an "upside"?  Don't get it twisted now.  Grads is not a world beater at all right now.  The book will still be out on wether he is a "better fit" for the offense.  A 100 yard performance is far from a good fit...

You are dead right. Gradkowski is not a world beater at this stage, and he isn't expected to be. Simms wasn't either, though he should have been further along than he demonstrated.

It is difficult to compare a rookie to a fourth year player. Among a few other things, like quick wits, mobility and supreme confidence, what Grads has going for him is the confidence of his head coach, something that Simms lacked. You seem to think that I am saying Gradkowski is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I am not, there is no evidence that it the case. The only thing we DO know is: does he fits the style of this offense better, does the coach believe in him, and did the coach get frustrated in the other guy?

Yes, yes and yes.

The book is NOT out on whether he is a better fit than Simms. Gradkowski IS a better fit, if for nothing else than the added mobility he has. We know that this is a fact and not speculation because of what the coach himself, the guy who is responsible for his offense, has said: Gradkowski has the added mobility that, in Gruden's words "we have lacked and really needed around here for a long time".

Number of yards passing, when the coach has clearly stated that the primary objective given his QB was to not turn the ball over, has nothing to do with "fit".

Boid Fink

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« #21 : October 24, 2006, 04:33:58 PM »

4th quarter comebacks are not always a good sign. That means you are not getting it done for 3 quarters.

BAM!

Winner!


DanTurksGhost

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« #22 : October 24, 2006, 04:34:54 PM »

4th quarter comebacks are not always a good sign.  That means you are not getting it done for 3 quarters.

Or the defense blows a 17 point lead.

Boid Fink

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« #23 : October 24, 2006, 04:37:38 PM »

Than what does Grad have going for him right now aside from an "upside"? Don't get it twisted now. Grads is not a world beater at all right now. The book will still be out on wether he is a "better fit" for the offense. A 100 yard performance is far from a good fit...

You are dead right. Gradkowski is not a world beater at this stage, and he isn't expected to be. Simms wasn't either, though he should have been further along than he demonstrated.

It is difficult to compare a rookie to a fourth year player. Among a few other things, like quick wits, mobility and supreme confidence, what Grads has going for him is the confidence of his head coach, something that Simms lacked. You seem to think that I am saying Gradkowski is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I am not, there is no evidence that it the case. The only thing we DO know is: does he fits the style of this offense better, does the coach believe in him, and did the coach get frustrated in the other guy?

Yes, yes and yes.

The book is NOT out on whether he is a better fit than Simms. Gradkowski IS a better fit, if for nothing else than the added mobility he has. We know that this is a fact and not speculation because of what the coach himself, the guy who is responsible for his offense, has said: Gradkowski has the added mobility that, in Gruden's words "we have lacked and really needed around here for a long time".

Number of yards passing, when the coach has clearly stated that the primary objective given his QB was to not turn the ball over, has nothing to do with "fit".

We will see how long 150 YPG will not drive Gruden insane.

And believe it or not, moving the ball matters.

The Bucs offense did jack last week.  A miracle kick is not Grads leading them to any promise land.  99 percent of the time, that game is over.

I am just saying, as a fan, I am not impressed.

He gets the MVP vote, because there isn't jack happening anywhere on the roster.  But really, he isn't doing anything.  Fitting in this offense is the ability to move the ball.

He needs to get that done, all this speculation is driving me insane.  Proof in pudding, not proof in recipe.


Boid Fink

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« #24 : October 24, 2006, 04:38:48 PM »

4th quarter comebacks are not always a good sign. That means you are not getting it done for 3 quarters.

Or the defense blows a 17 point lead.

Or the offense didn't put up any of the points except six, and 3 on a miracle.  So the defense gets half the game ball.

The offense looked like crap.


DanTurksGhost

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« #25 : October 24, 2006, 04:42:54 PM »

I am just saying, as a fan, I am not impressed.

We get it. Since it doesn't say "Simms" on the back of his jersey you're not going to be impressed. That's fine. The coach is impressed, and that's all that really counts right now.

DanTurksGhost

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« #26 : October 24, 2006, 04:45:36 PM »

Or the offense didn't put up any of the points except six, and 3 on a miracle.  So the defense gets half the game ball.

The offense looked like crap.

You can deflect if you like, but that's not the point, is it? Ronde Barber gets 3/4 the game ball and Matt Bryant gets the other 1/4. The rest of the defense forfeits their part for the pathetic performance in the fourth quarter.

Regardless of how the score got to be 17-0, either the defense did or did not protect the three-score lead. If they did, game over without the last drive. If they didn't, the the offense and special teams had to make some plays to regain the lead before 0:00.

Boid Fink

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« #27 : October 24, 2006, 04:50:19 PM »

I am just saying, as a fan, I am not impressed.

We get it. Since it doesn't say "Simms" on the back of his jersey you're not going to be impressed. That's fine. The coach is impressed, and that's all that really counts right now.

Now you can deflect if you like, but if it doesn't say "Gradkowski" on the back of the jersey, you will be critical.

Of course if I critique Grads, it makes you angry.  Hey man, he did not play very well the last two games.  You understand that?  Or can you come at me with a different P.O.V. again?

Face it, Grads did not play great ball, or even good ball the last two games.  I am sorry if I don't use him being a rook as an excuse for his sloppy throws.  It is about him making sloppy throws, and not bad reads, or getting confused by the schemes, or getting balls batted down.  I just want to see some damned zip on the ball, and some accuracy.  His throws were not good, and anyone who says they were, has low standards.

And trust me, Gruden is impressed with the kid, sure.  But only because he isn't losing them games.  It isn't with his arm right now.  I am sure it is disconcerting to him to say the least.


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« #28 : October 24, 2006, 04:52:56 PM »

56 percent and less than 5 yards a catch is not good, no matter how you twist it.  It hampers the offense which, believe it or not, is half the reason teams win (usually, last Sunday it was pretty much the only reason).


DanTurksGhost

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« #29 : October 24, 2006, 05:04:39 PM »

It is clear you really haven't been paying attention at all. I didn't say Gradkowski played great the past two games. What he did, however, is make a few key plays when a few key plays were necessary. He needs to improve his passing and get closer to that 70% completion percentage he enjoyed in college.

And nothing you can say regading Gradkowski can make me angry. I am not emotionally invested in the guy. He's the QB of choice right now, he was almost the starter on opening day, but if he doesn't work out he'll be replaced -- and that's how it should be. I think he'll do fine in the long run, but if he starts to stink up the joint like Simms did before he went out, then dump him. Fast.

I'm loyal to my favorite team, not individual players. I want the best fit at every position, every week. Even icons like Brooks have to be considered for replacement at some point.
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