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The White Tiger

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#45 : April 06, 2007, 11:05:43 PM

Besides taking a hot 21yo out drinking, did I do anything wrong?

Gruber (nice handle - not a brother Big Ten Badger are you?), while I admire your intestinal fortitude - not just anyone could do what you did. Still I gotta tell ya',  when ya get in the car with a 21 year old bent on drinking, you set yourself up. You immediately crossed the line...ESPECIALLY after the kiss. You knew someting was 'amiss' at this point, not your usual reaction...

I've seen some posts say that if no one knows, and it isn't physical, it isn't cheating...I don't buy that one. If you step into the situation what immediately begins RACING through your head? ALL the stuff that COULD happen!! When it did it shocked you...I'll bet YOU were more shocked at dropping her off then she was!!

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The White Tiger

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#46 : April 06, 2007, 11:20:45 PM




hmmmmmm....so if the said 21-year-old raped you it would have been OK.�

Funny - not good there is a difference. This is the Kobiashi Maru - Captain Kirks "no-win scenario". Follow this: What happens if she says it's consensual during the alcohol, but next day it isn't. She threatens to call 1) Your wife - who won't care if it was consensual or not, or 2) the cops - they arrest you, you get a night in jail, a lawyer (2 of them - see option 1) and get to PROVE your innocence...all because the situation presented itself.

The situation never "presents" itself. Someone ALWAYS makes a choice.

Gruber - like I said, great intestinal fortitude - but change that tradition to boys night out...Hockey night for the group - no one on one time with the female employees!


LMAO! good one!

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ufojoe

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#47 : April 06, 2007, 11:44:35 PM


Worrying about jail and her claiming non-consensual sex is a bit much. Does it happen?
Of course. But if guys were so worried/paranoid about that happening, why have
sex again? Only problem with Gruber's situation is that he has a significant other
and they're monogamous. If he was single, who in their right mind would say that
he was putting himself in a bad situation?

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#48 : April 06, 2007, 11:53:43 PM


Worrying about jail and her claiming non-consensual sex is a bit much. Does it happen?
Of course. But if guys were so worried/paranoid about that happening, why have
sex again? Only problem with Gruber's situation is that he has a significant other
and they're monogamous. If he was single, who in their right mind would say that
he was putting himself in a bad situation?

Since Gruber brought it up, and his situation is manogamous, I don't think it's a stretch at all. He saved it by doing the wise thing - one drink over the line and we're telling a diffirent story to a different "community"...you do get a phone call though.

Hmmm...who to call...GF or lawyer.....Kobiashi Maru

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Boid Fink

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#49 : April 07, 2007, 12:13:09 AM

Star Trek^^^^?


The White Tiger

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#50 : April 07, 2007, 12:23:22 AM

Star Trek^^^^?

Yes - No Win Scenario

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DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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#51 : April 07, 2007, 12:29:40 AM

Gruber,
In case you want a woman's opinion, here's my 2 cents.  Frame of reference:  I'm married and have never cheated or even come close to cheating on my husband.  I know that if you put yourself in a situation, things can happen that you didn't plan on, so I've always made sure not to put myself in those situations.  I wouldn't go to a bar or even out to lunch with a good-looking guy.  The risks outweigh the benefits. 

Is what you did cheating?  Well, I'm sure your girlfriend would think the kissing was cheating, but you did stop there and didn't take advantage of the "offer" later on, and you did decide not to put yourself in this situation any more, so you get major points.  Also, you're not married, so you haven't taken vows, even if you have made promises to one another, so it doesn't seem *as* major because of that, either.

Should you tell her?  Follow your instincts and NO NO NO NO NO don't tell her.  It might make *you* feel better very temporarily, but your girlfriend will most likely drive herself and you crazy about it for a long time to come. 

You sound like a stand-up guy, so stop beating yourself up and do something nice for her and the kid(s).

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#52 : April 07, 2007, 12:37:10 AM

Good advice, Daddy. Only thing I disagree with is this...

Also, you're not married, so you haven't taken vows, even if you have made promises to one another, so it doesn't seem *as* major because of that, either.

For me, if I am in a serious relationship and we have an unwritten rule of what is accepted and
what isn't, it doesn't matter if I took a vow or not. No difference whatsoever in my mind.

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#53 : April 07, 2007, 01:01:53 AM

joe, I can see your point.  To me the vows make it more permanent and the rules more serious somehow, but I think I'm so used to being married that it's hard for me to remember how serious my relationship was before we were married. 

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#54 : April 07, 2007, 01:08:33 AM

Yeah, I guess it's just my history of dating. It usually turns serious very quickly.

Although, when I was divorced and started to date for the first time in my life, I told
every woman tat I went out with that I was not going to be monogamous. They
either were ok with or or we didn't date again. But since I was honest with them,
they were fine. Until they had competition from another woman. Then it wasn't
fine. And that was only after one week of dating!

Still, I enjoyed it.

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#55 : April 07, 2007, 01:20:48 AM

joe, I can see your point. To me the vows make it more permanent and the rules more serious somehow, but I think I'm so used to being married that it's hard for me to remember how serious my relationship was before we were married.

I can see how some would think serious relationship are same as vows. IMO no way, you can decide to be manogamous...there is a HUGE difference when there are vows. You have made a public vow - your support group knows those vows. Too little is made of it these days.

Joe, I can see your point and I applaud you for that stance...but it is not the same...IMO.

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ufojoe

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#56 : April 07, 2007, 01:29:09 AM

I can see how some would think serious relationship are same as vows. IMO no way, you can decide to be monogamous...there is a HUGE difference when there are vows. You have made a public vow - your support group knows those vows. Too little is made of it these days.

Joe, I can see your point and I applaud you for that stance...but it is not the same...IMO.

My 2nd marriage? No public vows. We were married at "city hall" in Queens, N.Y. No rings. No photos.
Nothing. And there were no vows. It was the simple, 2 minute ceremony that every couple gets
there. In fact, we didn't even have a witness because my wife's friend stiffed us. We had to ask
around to find one. Some lady visiting from Trininad agreed to help us.

So, should I feel differently because I didn't take a vow? IMO, no way. Whatever relationship
rules my wife and I have are between she and I.

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#57 : April 07, 2007, 01:54:18 AM

I can see how some would think serious relationship are same as vows. IMO no way, you can decide to be monogamous...there is a HUGE difference when there are vows. You have made a public vow - your support group knows those vows. Too little is made of it these days.

Joe, I can see your point and I applaud you for that stance...but it is not the same...IMO.

My 2nd marriage? No public vows. We were married at "city hall" in Queens, N.Y. No rings. No photos.
Nothing. And there were no vows. It was the simple, 2 minute ceremony that every couple gets
there. In fact, we didn't even have a witness because my wife's friend stiffed us. We had to ask
around to find one. Some lady visiting from Trininad agreed to help us.

So, should I feel differently because I didn't take a vow? IMO, no way. Whatever relationship
rules my wife and I have are between she and I.

you have rings - you have liscence - you have marriage. My point is girl friends don't have this luxury no matter how many promises you give them. It also doesn't change the fact IMO that it doesn't matter...cheating is cheating.

The topic is cheating - let me ask this - what STOPS/KEEPS you from doing so?

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Boid Fink

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#58 : April 07, 2007, 01:58:49 AM

Cheating is such a broad term, and can be held in different lights.

A kiss incurred by a married man is a cheat.  A kiss by a single man might not be constituted as such.  I have always been a faithful kind of dude...although I have never been married.  The thought of pursuing another when you are seeing, and sharing a bed, with someone else is very beyond me.  I would never put myself through such a situation.

I have enough guilt without having to resort to that as well.

But I digress.

You know in your heart of hearts when you are acting a fool.  That is why we have consciences.  If it doesn;t bother you, not in the least, then you haven't cheated, but you haven't found the "one" either.


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#59 : April 07, 2007, 01:59:27 AM

No rings.

What stop's me from cheating? She and I discussed it in the beginning. We have sex with
each other and that's it. Those are the rules we set-up. If one of us wants to change the
rules, the we'll have another discussion. In the meantime, I'll stick to our agreement.
My word is my word.

There's more I can say but it's just not fair to my wife to share personal stuff on here.
Although, she just told me I could. But I don't feel right.
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