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ufojoe

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#60 : April 07, 2007, 02:04:30 AM

A kiss incurred by a married man is a cheat.  A kiss by a single man might not be constituted
as such.

What if both parties are not believers in marriage and just live together. Does that mean
kissing (going by your definition) isn't cheating? Of course not.

I have enough guilt without having to resort to that as well.

Boid, what the hell do you have to feel guilty about?

If it doesn;t bother you, not in the least, then you haven't cheated, but you haven't found the "one" either.

Or, you are totally selfish and don't have a conscience. The former band leader that I lived
with in the late 90s would cheat all the time and it didn't seem to bother him. He was
an ass.

DBrooksIsMyDaddy

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#61 : April 07, 2007, 02:05:20 AM

No rings.

What stop's me from cheating? She and I discussed it in the beginning. We have sex with
each other and that's it. Those are the rules we set-up. If one of us wants to change the
rules, the we'll have another discussion. In the meantime, I'll stick to our agreement.
My word is my word.
There's more I can say but it's just not fair to my wife to share personal stuff on here.
Although, she just told me I could. But I don't feel right.

Joe, that's the difference right there.  "If one of us wants to change the rules".  When you're married and take vows (I thought there were always vows, even in a civil ceremony, but I guess I was wrong) you promise to be true to your spouse till death do you part.  Not until you want to change the rules.

ufojoe

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#62 : April 07, 2007, 02:10:22 AM

Joe, that's the difference right there.  "If one of us wants to change the rules".  When you're married
and take vows (I thought there were always vows, even in a civil ceremony, but I guess I was wrong)
you promise to be true to your spouse till death do you part.  Not until you want to change the rules.

My first marriage, we took vows. But if that wife and I wanted to have sex with others, nobody
was going to stop us if she and I agreed on it. I don't think our vows said we would be with each
other and each other only. It was an unwritten rule between us. We wrote our own vows and
had a Metaphysical Reverend do the service.

Boid Fink

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#63 : April 07, 2007, 02:13:24 AM

A kiss incurred by a married man is a cheat. A kiss by a single man might not be constituted
as such.

What if both parties are not believers in marriage and just live together. Does that mean
kissing (going by your definition) isn't cheating? Of course not.

I have enough guilt without having to resort to that as well.

Boid, what the hell do you have to feel guilty about?

If it doesn;t bother you, not in the least, then you haven't cheated, but you haven't found the "one" either.

Or, you are totally selfish and don't have a conscience. The former band leader that I lived
with in the late 90s would cheat all the time and it didn't seem to bother him. He was
an ass.
Exactly.  I thought I explained myself adequately here.

A married man, by "standard" definition, is a man who is monogamous.  Unless they have an agreement, moral in nature, that says they can screw around with whomever they choose.  If I am married, and my wife kisses another man, she has officially cheated on me.  I am not sure if it would hold up in divorce court, but in my mind she has gone over the edge.  As a single man, if the GF kisses someone else, I can have the luxury of viewing it from an assortment of angles.  I think the relationship would end though.  I am a jealous dude, if my kiss isn't enough, she has issues she needs to work through, and I don't hand out my trust like Halloween candy.

As for the bandleader who cheated, well, I did make mention of a conscience.  And yes, the guy is a jerk.  I know a ton of guys like that, and I rag them hard, but they still hang out....


The White Tiger

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#64 : April 07, 2007, 02:24:56 AM

Cheating is such a broad term, and can be held in different lights.

A kiss incurred by a married man is a cheat. A kiss by a single man might not be constituted as such. I have always been a faithful kind of dude...although I have never been married. The thought of pursuing another when you are seeing, and sharing a bed, with someone else is very beyond me. I would never put myself through such a situation.

I have enough guilt without having to resort to that as well.

But I digress.

You know in your heart of hearts when you are acting a fool. That is why we have consciences. If it doesn;t bother you, not in the least, then you haven't cheated, but you haven't found the "one" either.

Well said Boid.

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InChuckyITrust

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#65 : April 07, 2007, 09:23:55 AM

Great advice, DBrooksismydaddy.

Grub dawg, you know im about 40 miles from you and you can crash here!

BUT DONT TELL HER.  You didnt do a anything wrong.  Admitting it to her makes it seem like you did something wrong.

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#66 : April 07, 2007, 09:31:47 AM

BUT DONT TELL HER. You didnt do a anything wrong. Admitting it to her makes it seem like you did something wrong.

Hiding stuff might come back to bite him, especially if someone saw the kiss.  If I had an experience like that and told my wife she would be annoyed I went out alone with the girl, but his GF already knows he went out with her.

My wife would laugh at the other stuff that went on, and be proud if I had resisted.  However my wife has known me long enough to know exactly how I would have reacted faced with a willing naked 21-year-old chick.   ::)

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#67 : April 07, 2007, 10:38:36 AM

I think this needs to be addressed in perspective. The perspective being the nature of the kiss. You said she kissed you. If she leant over and tried to kiss you, that is one thing, but if you were both at the bar swapping spit you are in trouble IMO. In that case I would definately not tell the GF. Learn your lesson and keep your fingers crossed. If she tried to kiss you and you pulled away you might get away with that if you told the GF. Even then I would be tempted not to say anything. If it does get back to the GF you can say that you felt embarassed and stupid that you put yourself in that situation and did not want to get into an argument about something that you already know was wrong and have learnt from. Regardless, I would leave out part two of the situation in all discussions. No need to go there at all.

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#68 : April 07, 2007, 10:51:54 AM

Back to the original question:

Adultery is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who is not his spouse. Some legal jurisdictions have defined it as a "crime against marriage".





SO technically Bill Clinton was right.  He did not have relations with that woman.


Boid Fink

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#69 : April 07, 2007, 11:22:11 AM

Back to the original question:

Adultery is voluntary sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who is not his spouse. Some legal jurisdictions have defined it as a "crime against marriage".



;)


SO technically Bill Clinton was right. He did not have relations with that woman.
;)




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#70 : April 07, 2007, 07:36:49 PM

Should you tell her? Follow your instincts and NO NO NO NO NO don't tell her. It might make *you* feel better very temporarily, but your girlfriend will most likely drive herself and you crazy about it for a long time to come.

My thoughts exactly..... kinda shocking coming from a female.

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#71 : April 08, 2007, 06:15:38 AM

Anything you wouldn't do if your spouse or SO was there with you.

I guess I probably cheated on every woman I ever had a relationship with, except for my wife. I know about cheating. It's something you do when you're with the wrong woman. Eighteen years ago I met the right one. I've been faithful ever since, and not because I fear God's wrath. I don't believe in God. I have the perfect relationship and I want to keep it that way. We trust each other and take care of each other. There is nothing more important than my wife, ever. I like being able to look her in the eye. There is no war of the sexes in my home. We may disagree about something, but we never fight. I would never do anything to hurt her. Once you start trying to hurt each other, it only escalates. You lose something you can never get back.

When you cheat, you're cheating yourself. It's like peeing in the hot tub.

ufojoe

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#72 : April 08, 2007, 05:25:39 PM

Anything you wouldn't do if your spouse or SO was there with you.

Uh oh. I'm in trouble.

By that definition, flirting is cheating. I wouldn't flirt with another woman with my
wife present. But I've done it when I'm working. And I have no problem with her flirting
when I'm not with her. Or even if I'm with her! Let her have her fun.

I guess I probably cheated on every woman I ever had a relationship with, except for my wife.

You definition of cheating allows for so may possibilities. By cheating you mean sexual
contact with another person?

I know about cheating. It's something you do when you're with the wrong woman.

What about people who have open relationships and it works for both of them?

Eighteen years ago I met the right one. I've been faithful ever since, and not because I fear God's wrath. I don't believe in God.

It's not possible to be a good person unless you are afraid if hell. (sarcasm).

buckit

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#73 : April 13, 2007, 03:07:41 PM

The answer:  whatever they think it is.  Anything you wouldn't do in front of your spouce, is probably a red flag...


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#74 : April 13, 2007, 03:43:31 PM

I decided to weigh-in finally.

I agree with those who say "if it felt wrong, it probably was wrong" because every relationship is unique and you are the best possible judge of the tolerances your GF has.  I've never kissed another woman since I met my wife 15 years ago, but I'm also perceptive enough to know that taking another woman out for drinks by ourselves is already a dangerous proposition.  remember, thou shalt not commit adultery, by thought, word or deed.  I'm not going to throw a Bible at you, but in my opinion you violated your GF's trust by allowing this situation to develop and get out of hand.  You salvaged it a little by keeping your zipper in the upright and locked position, but you did make an error in judgement.  I don't think you "cheated", but I think you went over the inferred line by kissing this girl.  If you tell your GF, you risk planting a seed of doubt in her mind for the rest of her life and she might beat herself up trying to figure out if she should trust you in the future.  Nothing to be gained by telling her except feeling better about it yourself.  I think you should internalize it and use it to keep your head on straight in the future.  If it comes-up down the road, you are probably screwed.  If you tell her now, you are probably screwed too. 

One idea that just came to me was to write this all down, the circumstances and how you felt and why you elected to not say anything.  Date it, put a newspaper headline with the date in there, seal it and keep it safe. Maybe wait 6 months, then tell her that you have something to discuss.  Give it to her, let her read it and wait for her to react.  If you are a good writer, it will help and the fact that time has passed since the incident might make it more palatable for her.  My thinking is that a firsthand written account always sounds more credible than a stammered excuse if someone ever tells her what they saw.

I have to say that I don't tell my wife EVERYTHING.  I guarantee she doesn't tell me everything either.  Not a lack of trust, just a comfort zone we have.  If a girl hits on me, I am adult enough to pass it off and move on.  No reason to alarm her since we expect each other to do the right thing.  Reporting such minutia can sometimes backfire by raising her anxiety.  The fact that I don't give it any attention actually works.
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