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#15 : April 08, 2007, 01:17:55 PM


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#16 : April 08, 2007, 01:19:52 PM

I agree, FRG. None of the Qb's we have are going to be mistaken for a SB winning QB. We should draft Quinn, let him learn for a year behind Garcia and play next year. Coming from Weis's pro style offense, his learning curve might not be as long as a lot of rookies.


People act like losing Simms or Grad means anything in the long run. Simms is worse than Carr and we saw what a "hot" commodity he was. Grads is Jim Sorgi. If Jim Sorgi gets cut does anyone notice/care? No.

Bottom line people are confusing our quantity of QB's with some sort of quality. As if 4 spares = 1 good QB. Doesn't work that way.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#17 : April 08, 2007, 01:24:25 PM

I agree, FRG. None of the Qb's we have are going to be mistaken for a SB winning QB. We should draft Quinn, let him learn for a year behind Garcia and play next year. Coming from Weis's pro style offense, his learning curve might not be as long as a lot of rookies.


People act like losing Simms or Grad means anything in the long run. Simms is worse than Carr and we saw what a "hot" commodity he was. Grads is Jim Sorgi. If Jim Sorgi gets cut does anyone notice/care? No.

Bottom line people are confusing our quantity of QB's with some sort of quality. As if 4 spares = 1 good QB. Doesn't work that way.

You or I may not see anything in any particular QB we have, but again neither of us is Jon Gruden.

We may not see anything in Grads (and I don't really) but it's obvious Gruden likes him and wants him around.

My point is that if Jon Gruden likes 4 quarterbacks, he'll find a way to keep four quarterbacks, IMO.

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#18 : April 08, 2007, 01:36:50 PM

What I'd like to see is them getting some value for Simms, re-sign Rattay and then let him, Grads & McCown battle it out. The problem with that scenario is that Rattay doesn't seem to show up in practice and only in games.

Rattay has received very little play on the market and if they could resign him for the minimum (or a zero signing bonus deal) I could see this happening.  As you point out, though, Rattay is clearly better in games than in practice and Gruden favors QBs that practice well.  I think the fact that the Bucs have expressed no interest in re-signing Rattay even after his game performances last year speaks volumes.

Simms doesn't appear to be a good fit for what Jon wants to do. While I like Simms and think he still may have potential with the way Gruden adjusts to his strengths, his value to this team is that he knows the playbook (and that has even been debated) and has the starting experience here.

I like Simms, but I agree he just doesn't fit here.  You mention Gruden adjusting to his strengths, but we didn't see any of that last year.  McCown as a scrambler seems a better fit for the offense and has been around long enough to know the playbook.  I'd be happy if we got a mid-rounder for Simms.




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#19 : April 08, 2007, 01:53:06 PM

What I'd like to see is them getting some value for Simms, re-sign Rattay and then let him, Grads & McCown battle it out. The problem with that scenario is that Rattay doesn't seem to show up in practice and only in games.

Rattay has received very little play on the market and if they could resign him for the minimum (or a zero signing bonus deal) I could see this happening.  As you point out, though, Rattay is clearly better in games than in practice and Gruden favors QBs that practice well.  I think the fact that the Bucs have expressed no interest in re-signing Rattay even after his game performances last year speaks volumes.

Simms doesn't appear to be a good fit for what Jon wants to do. While I like Simms and think he still may have potential with the way Gruden adjusts to his strengths, his value to this team is that he knows the playbook (and that has even been debated) and has the starting experience here.

I like Simms, but I agree he just doesn't fit here.  You mention Gruden adjusting to his strengths, but we didn't see any of that last year.  McCown as a scrambler seems a better fit for the offense and has been around long enough to know the playbook.  I'd be happy if we got a mid-rounder for Simms.

While I'm sure that it is frustrating to have a QB who practices in a bad manner, it is very short sighted to not keep your best QB from last season unless there is something major they're not telling us.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it may of been a case of money, cost in terms of draft picks (Simms 3rd, Rattay 7th) and the actual trade value of Simms that was the determining factor here.

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#20 : April 08, 2007, 02:15:17 PM

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it may of been a case of money, cost in terms of draft picks (Simms 3rd, Rattay 7th) and the actual trade value of Simms that was the determining factor here.
Unfortunately there is too much tape on Simms at this point for him to have any trade value. After the 2004 season when he had only thrown a handful of passes, he had the Matt Schaub thing going for him where teams were unsure of what his future was and may have thought he was worth trading for. After looking as pathetic as he did in 2006, no team is going to trade for him any more than they traded for David Carr.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#21 : April 08, 2007, 02:49:24 PM

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it may of been a case of money, cost in terms of draft picks (Simms 3rd, Rattay 7th) and the actual trade value of Simms that was the determining factor here.
Unfortunately there is too much tape on Simms at this point for him to have any trade value. After the 2004 season when he had only thrown a handful of passes, he had the Matt Schaub thing going for him where teams were unsure of what his future was and may have thought he was worth trading for. After looking as pathetic as he did in 2006, no team is going to trade for him any more than they traded for David Carr.

You're probably right there, but Simms isn't damaged goods to the extent Carr is and I think that may be more of a determining factor here- the way he takes sacks and the wear & tear on him at this point. I mean, Carr has the numbers that Simms doesn't if you look at last season's results. Simms has the potential, but I think his value would be in only a few, if any schemes in this league; in other words, very few customers - and that may part be your point.

On the other hand, how did Atlanta get such value out of Matt Schaub ? I mean yeah, the guy has potential, but was Houston that dumb or was Atlanta just that smart ? That trade didn't make sense to me at all. I would hope Kubiak wasn't behind that one or should I say, that desperate. Was it the right guy to the right team at the right time ?

Back to Simms, it would be nice to find a situation like that for him. It's probably worth it keep him rather than letting him go for a 4th or 5th. Now if you could get a 2nd or 3rd and re-sign Rattay, I'd do that in a heartbeat. You'd still have Grads and McCown to compete with him as well as Plummer's rights.

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#22 : April 08, 2007, 03:05:09 PM

I would be opposed to drafting Quinn, we have no future QB!!!!

Trade Simms and Plummer, then have Garcia, Quinn, Gradkowski


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#23 : April 08, 2007, 03:14:02 PM

On the other hand, how did Atlanta get such value out of Matt Schaub ? I mean yeah, the guy has potential, but was Houston that dumb or was Atlanta just that smart ? That trade didn't make sense to me at all. I would hope Kubiak wasn't behind that one or should I say, that desperate. Was it the right guy to the right team at the right time ?
1.) Atlanta never gave Schaub enough rope to hang himself and 2.) you have a sizable anti-Vick contingent who would prop Schaub up simply because he wasn't Vick.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.



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#24 : April 08, 2007, 04:33:03 PM

I would be opposed to drafting Quinn, we have no future QB!!!!

Trade Simms and Plummer, then have Garcia, Quinn, Gradkowski

There are much better options at #4. Is Quinn a franchise QB ? I don't believe that he is and the Bucs don't need a QB. Do you know of any team wanting to trade for Simms and Plummer ? I haven't heard of any, so that may be easier said than done and wishful thinking at best.

May I recommend an insider subscription ?  ;)

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#25 : April 08, 2007, 05:17:20 PM

I think you're assuming too much LV.  First, it isn't guaranteed that Simms is #2, nobody should be shocked if he falls to #3.  And whil carrying 4 is unlikely, it's not out of the realm.  We know that Jeff is a 2-3 year deal (more likely 2), so you need to keep a "permanent" roster of about 3 -- no way we roll with just 2 when there are big questions about simms' ability to stay healthy and Grads ability to improve.

It would be very possible, despite what some are saying, that we draft a QB and trade simms, giving us Garcia->Grads->Quinn/JR  with the long-term look to be Quinn/JR with Grads as backup.
I just listed QB's, no order of ranking.   The Problem with Garcia->Grads->Quinn/JR if Garcia goes down it's 2006 all over again.  Gruden has a complicated system.

 
What I'd like to see is them getting some value for Simms, re-sign Rattay and then let him, Grads & McCown battle it out. The problem with that scenario is that Rattay doesn't seem to show up in practice and only in games.

Rattay has received very little play on the market and if they could resign him for the minimum (or a zero signing bonus deal) I could see this happening.  As you point out, though, Rattay is clearly better in games than in practice and Gruden favors QBs that practice well.  I think the fact that the Bucs have expressed no interest in re-signing Rattay even after his game performances last year speaks volumes.

Simms doesn't appear to be a good fit for what Jon wants to do. While I like Simms and think he still may have potential with the way Gruden adjusts to his strengths, his value to this team is that he knows the playbook (and that has even been debated) and has the starting experience here.

I like Simms, but I agree he just doesn't fit here.  You mention Gruden adjusting to his strengths, but we didn't see any of that last year.  McCown as a scrambler seems a better fit for the offense and has been around long enough to know the playbook.  I'd be happy if we got a mid-rounder for Simms.

You mean like adding a shot gun?


 
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it may of been a case of money, cost in terms of draft picks (Simms 3rd, Rattay 7th) and the actual trade value of Simms that was the determining factor here.
Unfortunately there is too much tape on Simms at this point for him to have any trade value. After the 2004 season when he had only thrown a handful of passes, he had the Matt Schaub thing going for him where teams were unsure of what his future was and may have thought he was worth trading for. After looking as pathetic as he did in 2006, no team is going to trade for him any more than they traded for David Carr.

Did you forget that Simms took us to the Play-offs in 2005.  He was 5-0 in the division.  How about when there was rumors that the Jets wanted to trade for Simm for a 2nd.  No one wanted to le Simms go then.  I said He has done Better than Carr



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#26 : April 08, 2007, 05:51:14 PM

Quote
Did you forget that Simms took us to the Play-offs in 2005.  He was 5-0 in the division.  How about when there was rumors that the Jets wanted to trade for Simm for a 2nd.  No one wanted to le Simms go then.  I said He has done Better than Carr

No, not at all and that's why he has any trade at all and exactly why he may still have potential.

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#27 : April 08, 2007, 06:06:43 PM

Simms killed any trade value last season when he got outplayed by a rookie R6 pick and Tim Rattay. Most of his flaws got exposed and so, to the Schaub point, teams got to see that Simms had a Scott Mitchell moment in 2005 and reality set back in.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#28 : April 08, 2007, 07:34:35 PM

Bottom line is, there is no one on the current Bucs roster that says we should NOT take a QB round 1.  Nobody.  We have nothing but backups and stop gaps at this juncture.  If the BPA is a QB we need to take him, its that simple.

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#29 : April 08, 2007, 11:28:32 PM

ya most bucs fans no that we will not take a QB. If we could only convince espn and some stupid mock drafts that.
Im with you on that


Quote from: True Playa
I'm a playa from way back and playa's gotta play. I'm straight pimpin'. Southside OG's keep it real. Represent the third coast.
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