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ufojoe

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« : April 17, 2007, 12:01:14 PM »


There's been a few threads and discussions lately on sex, marriage, infidelity,
and other related subjects.

My questions, intended to promote discussion, are these:

1) Is jealousy an emotion we are born with or is it taught/learned?

2) Is monogamy the natural state for humans?

I won't go first this time but I think several of you know my feelings on this...

Who's first?

Rusty

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« #1 : April 17, 2007, 12:18:53 PM »

joe,

IMHO jealousy is an emotion we are born with. I think monogamy is more natural for women than for men. I am not, however, advocating adultery. Sex is very emotional for women, for men it's like brushing your teeth. We'd do it three times a day if we could and wouldn't remember who we did it with the day before.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

alstott40

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« #2 : April 17, 2007, 12:19:06 PM »

1) no your born with it, stems back to win kids have bigger better toys then you, you naturally want it, and if you dont get it your jelous over it

2) I would say in the 50's and 60's when poeple it wasnt common to cheat, or when the stepford wifes would condem you, I would say this day in age monogamy does not happen or at least not talked about


gruber

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« #3 : April 17, 2007, 02:31:31 PM »

Jealousy is somthing your born with.  Alstott 40 said it exactly how iwas going to.

Monogamy... Well Joe I think you know my feeling on that know. What do they say that only 2 types of mammals are manogamous, humans being one. I feel monogamy is due to moral and social acceptance  it is not a natural state.


Ironphist

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« #4 : April 17, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »

i think chasing tail falls under one of them there inalienable rights - pursuit of tail or something like dat...

mjs020294

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« #5 : April 17, 2007, 06:02:43 PM »

joe,

IMHO jealousy is an emotion we are born with. I think monogamy is more natural for women than for men. I am not, however, advocating adultery. Sex is very emotional for women, for men it's like brushing your teeth.

Partially true yet married women have affairs more than married men. 

When I was young and immature I used to get jealous.  These days I am confident in my relationship and I don't have an ounce of jealousy in me quite honestly.  We can’t control the feelings of our loved ones we can simply influence them.  Most types of jealousy are particularly unattractive and I just don’t go there under any circumstances.




Guest
« #6 : April 17, 2007, 06:48:21 PM »

In my small world of sociological analysis,  jealously equates to greed which is innate. Greed for food, fire and flank. In other words it's biological, to survive and procreate. Monogamy is generally a societal concept, but can also be one borne out of biological greed as well. Monogamy also holds a position of value in society for other reasons, similar to marriage and religion, it's a mass control device.

Otherwise, it ain't nothin' but anarchy, baby! :-)

corruptpirate

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« #7 : April 17, 2007, 07:02:07 PM »

I think jealusy is a natural thing like anger and happiness. The idea of "you want something you can't have" is always in people.

As for monogamy, most modern societies look down upon it greatly. But honestly, if relationship was just based on sex alone, monogamy would not exist. There has to be something to keep two people together for a long time.

I like this quote:
i think chasing tail falls under one of them there inalienable rights - pursuit of tail or something like dat...

ufojoe

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« #8 : April 18, 2007, 05:02:16 AM »


Some days I think jealousy is taught and learned and some days I feel we are born with it.
IMO, there is a difference between envy and jealousy. But not enough to debate it here.

Only way to know if romantic jealousy is natural is for us to be brought up in a society
where monogamy is not practiced and then see how we feel about it our partners being
with others. But obviously, that's not going to happen. We have to speculate on what
it might have been like. Although, I'm sure there are studies somebody can find that
show how cultures which don't practice monogamy handle jealousy.

For sake of this debate, I'll assume that jealousy is a natural trait. IMO, I think we
can learn to overcome it and want what's best for our partners without jealousy
rearing its ugly head. Not an easy thing to do but possible, IMO. I think we can
also overcome greed. If, in fact, we are born to be greedy. I am not sure about
that one.

Also, IMO, monogamy is not our natural state. If we would just acknowledge this,
many relationship problems might be overcome. I think the 60s and free love
had part of the answer. There are people that practice open relationships today
and are successful at it. I have met some of them recently. It's not something
many people can handle or even want to try. But it DOES work for some and
their lives are better because of it.



Guest
« #9 : April 18, 2007, 06:14:29 PM »

Jealousy is and can be a very dangerous emotion.

Runole

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« #10 : April 18, 2007, 06:17:53 PM »

"Also, IMO, monogamy is not our natural state. If we would just acknowledge this,
many relationship problems might be overcome. I think the 60s and free love
had part of the answer. There are people that practice open relationships today
and are successful at it. I have met some of them recently. It's not something
many people can handle or even want to try. But it DOES work for some and
their lives are better because of it."


While I most certainly agree monogamy for an unmarried person is totally unrealistic,I believe that when one is married that infidelity is moral bankruptcy.  The whole "open marriage" thing very rarely will ever work IMHO despite some whom state their lives are better for it??


Here is the fundamental problem:  All relationships are not equal for the needs or desires of each partner.  So you are married and you decide to take a roll in the hay with someone you met across town.  You have absolutely no control over what that other person will do and what their actions will be after the deed.  Is your spouse really cool with the whole idea? How do you know? Why be married at all if you can't  be faithful?   Sorry but IMO it is a minefield waiting to explode IMHO.

spartan

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« #11 : April 18, 2007, 10:10:12 PM »

I think it is both learnt and instinctive. Animals are for the most part monogomous during the mating season. They fight for and to protect the partner that they have chosen. This is the difference between us and animals. We are cognizant and remember our past experiences so our 'mating season' lasts more than just a year. My opinion is that the much exalted' man is the/one of the only animals to be monogomous' is not as clear cut as it is made out to be. I think that most animals are monogomous within the scope of their environment. Our environmnent just has, for the most part,  a bigger scope.

EDIT: For those who say that monogomy is 'unnatural' outside of marriage, are you trying to tell me that come the big catastrophe/war/whatever and society as we know it decays, and there are no priests etc to perform the rite of marriage nobody will be monogomous?

ufojoe

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« #12 : April 19, 2007, 02:54:13 AM »

Whether or not monogamy is natural or unnatural has nothing to do with being married, IMO.

While I most certainly agree monogamy for an unmarried person is totally unrealistic,I believe that when one is married that infidelity is moral bankruptcy.  The whole "open marriage" thing very rarely will ever work IMHO despite some whom state their lives are better for it??

It very rarely works? What is that statement based on? Links with data, please


Here is the fundamental problem:  All relationships are not equal for the needs or desires of each partner.  So you are married and you decide to take a roll in the hay with someone you met across town.  You have absolutely no control over what that other person will do and what their actions will be after the deed.  Is your spouse really cool with the whole idea? How do you know? Why be married at all if you can't  be faithful?   Sorry but IMO it is a minefield waiting to explode IMHO.
Quote


While I most certainly agree monogamy for an unmarried person is totally unrealistic,I believe that when one is married that infidelity is moral bankruptcy.  The whole "open marriage" thing very rarely will ever work IMHO despite some whom state their lives are better for it??


Here is the fundamental problem:  All relationships are not equal for the needs or desires of each partner.  So you are married and you decide to take a roll in the hay with someone you met across town.  You have absolutely no control over what that other person will do and what their actions will be after the deed.  Is your spouse really cool with the whole idea? How do you know? Why be married at all if you can't  be faithful?   Sorry but IMO it is a minefield waiting to explode IMHO.

Marriage is a minefield waiting to happen. What's the divorce rate?

How do you know if your spouse is really cool? Discussion and honesty. Can your spouse lie or
just go along for fear of losing you? Yes.

If I had an open marriage, would I be able to control how the other person acted? No. But
I can control what I say to them and what I promise them. And what really matters is
how I control my emotions and how honest I am with my spouse.

Don't know if that makes sense because I am tired right now.

Why get married? Plenty of people get married for tax purposes or to have certain
rights that a non-married could wouldn't have. Some do it to make their family
happy and others do it because they feel it solidifies their commitment.


Runole

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« #13 : April 19, 2007, 10:58:07 AM »

I certainly agree with your comments about divorce rates which is why I think getting married should be more difficult to get into and easy to get out of.

I wonder why marriage is a "minefield"?  Could it just be that each party has been dishonest from the beginning??


"if I had an open marriage, would I be able to control how the other person acted? No. But
I can control what I say to them and what I promise them. And what really matters is
how I control my emotions and how honest I am with my spouse."


So is this a don't ask don't tell approach to fidelity?  or is it " Hey Hon I am going out tonight to see if I can get lucky.  I'll let you know the details later!"??


Whether you are married or not, I just believe a certain fundamental trust is needed, and infidelity no matter what anyone states honestly or not is the road to the end of that relationship.



BucsFan1976

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« #14 : April 19, 2007, 11:17:50 AM »

I think all the traits you decribed and their opposites Joe are  "natural states" for human beings.  Just depends on the individual. That isnt to say that people cant change.
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