Congrats Josh Hamilton

[rayfsc07]

If I were a rays fan I'd be pretty pissed too. They gave him hell of an opportunity, basically said F you to the team that was willing to give him it all and now is tearing it up in Cinci. Yeah he was great cleaning himself up but he screwed the rays pretty hard.

He had issues.  He didn't ask to go to Cincy.  Cincy gave him a chance for a fresh start and he has made the most of it.  He got caught up in the wrong stuff with the wrong people, it happens to a lot of people in the world.  I don't think he maliciously intended to screw any fans over, he just was a young kid who screwed up his life.  He has it on track, it looks like the Rays gave up on him, and now he is making the most of his new start.    If you are a fan of a team you should be happy to see a guy like this finally get it together.

For instance, say Marcus Thomas gets in the NFL, cleans his act up, and finally fulfills his potential.  WIll I hate him for bailing on UF?  No.  I will be happy to see a guy I used to root for FINALLY get his act together.  I guess that's just me....

[rayfsc07]

Isn't Baez like the best Rays RP ever?

Funny to call him overrated when he is the best RP your organization has had.

Roberto Hernandez? And in general baseball he is overrated IMO, it's not like the Rays have ever had a great RP.

Well, Roberto had an extra year but Baez was every bit as good if not better on average.

Roberto had 3 years saved 26, 43, and 32 games, ERA was 4.04, 3.07, 3.19 and WHIP 1.35, 1.38, 1.35. Roberto went 8-16.
Baez had 2 years, saved 30 and 41 games, ERA was 3.57 and 2.86, and WHIP was 1.31 and 1.33. Baez went 9-8.

Baez has been a fairly good RP over his career outside of last year. Looking at their numbers I'd say as a D-Ray they were both pretty much even as Rays.

Point taken. You can make the case for either, I'll call it a tie and still say they're not top tier relievers.

Well neither is a dominant closer like a RIvera, Hoffman, etc. but both were pretty damn good for the Rays.  I was just saying Baez is at worst tied for the best RP in their history, and you calling him overrated is pretty bad considering.

That's not even the same situation, at all.

This franchise gave him the number one overall pick.

It gave him nearly a decade of time to get things together.

It got him re-instated to play baseball.

Comparing that to the Thomas situation (in which he's not there to play football, but to get an education, and at max for four seasons) isn't valid.

I wish him well, but I'm a Rays fan, I respect players not on the Rays, but do I cheer them on? No.

Isn't Baez like the best Rays RP ever?

Funny to call him overrated when he is the best RP your organization has had.

Roberto Hernandez? And in general baseball he is overrated IMO, it's not like the Rays have ever had a great RP.

Well, Roberto had an extra year but Baez was every bit as good if not better on average.

Roberto had 3 years saved 26, 43, and 32 games, ERA was 4.04, 3.07, 3.19 and WHIP 1.35, 1.38, 1.35. Roberto went 8-16.
Baez had 2 years, saved 30 and 41 games, ERA was 3.57 and 2.86, and WHIP was 1.31 and 1.33. Baez went 9-8.

Baez has been a fairly good RP over his career outside of last year. Looking at their numbers I'd say as a D-Ray they were both pretty much even as Rays.

Point taken. You can make the case for either, I'll call it a tie and still say they're not top tier relievers.

Well neither is a dominant closer like a RIvera, Hoffman, etc. but both were pretty damn good for the Rays. I was just saying Baez is at worst tied for the best RP in their history, and you calling him overrated is pretty bad considering.

Not really, again saying he's the best (or Robo) means they're really good. Not the case with Baez, that's part of the reason I don't usually use 'but he's the best __ for the team ever' argument. I could say Aki is the best Rays 3b ever, and he is, but I like Jared Sandberg and I'm not willing to throw him under the bus fo two weeks of a .491 OBP.

Just my odd ways.

[rayfsc07]

That's not even the same situation, at all.

This franchise gave him the number one overall pick.

It gave him nearly a decade of time to get things together.

It got him re-instated to play baseball.

Comparing that to the Thomas situation (in which he's not there to play football, but to get an education, and at max for four seasons) isn't valid.

I wish him well, but I'm a Rays fan, I respect players not on the Rays, but do I cheer them on? No.

They gave him what 7-8 years?  And just as he was clean and getting his life back on track they gave up on him.  Smart move. 

And LOL.  Don't get it twisted.  Guys like Thomas are at school to play football.  Sadly, he was never there to graduate.  A lot of elite players aren't.  He couldn't stay committed to his team because of drugs.  A lot more parallels than you think.  He was given several chances to clean up his act and couldn't.  But I will always hope he can get it together because is a very talented player.

[rayfsc07]

Isn't Baez like the best Rays RP ever?

Funny to call him overrated when he is the best RP your organization has had.

Roberto Hernandez? And in general baseball he is overrated IMO, it's not like the Rays have ever had a great RP.

Well, Roberto had an extra year but Baez was every bit as good if not better on average.

Roberto had 3 years saved 26, 43, and 32 games, ERA was 4.04, 3.07, 3.19 and WHIP 1.35, 1.38, 1.35. Roberto went 8-16.
Baez had 2 years, saved 30 and 41 games, ERA was 3.57 and 2.86, and WHIP was 1.31 and 1.33. Baez went 9-8.

Baez has been a fairly good RP over his career outside of last year. Looking at their numbers I'd say as a D-Ray they were both pretty much even as Rays.

Point taken. You can make the case for either, I'll call it a tie and still say they're not top tier relievers.

Well neither is a dominant closer like a RIvera, Hoffman, etc. but both were pretty damn good for the Rays. I was just saying Baez is at worst tied for the best RP in their history, and you calling him overrated is pretty bad considering.

Not really, again saying he's the best (or Robo) means they're really good. Not the case with Baez, that's part of the reason I don't usually use 'but he's the best __ for the team ever' argument. I could say Aki is the best Rays 3b ever, and he is, but I like Jared Sandberg and I'm not willing to throw him under the bus fo two weeks of a .491 OBP.

Just my odd ways.

Using Aki who has had 2 weeks as an argument vs. Roberto 3 years and Baez 2 years is crazy talk. 

I bowdown to those kings of hindsight, none of ya were calling for him back in November.

Do I need to show you links? I will look for them if you want but I thought most Rays fans including myself, who heard Josh Hamilton was drafted in the Rule 5 draft were upset. Everyone assumed it would be difficult for him to hold a 25 man roster spot with Cincy considering he hadnt played above A ball, so the thought that he would soon be returned to the Rays is what calmed everyone down about this. The last thing any Rays fan wantedhappen is

I bowdown to those kings of hindsight, none of ya were calling for him back in November.

I was. I was pissed the minute they took him off the 40 man, because I knew he would have been taken in the Rule V draft.

Me too, I think most were.

Thomas smoked weed, most teenagers / college kids do.
Hamilton did coke, LSD, whatever else, and let his obsession take over the things 'he loves more than anything else' baseball and his wife / kid.

No true simliarities.

Ray my Aki piece was a joke on Jared Sandberg, you know I have a fascination with Tyner, Abernathy, Sandberg, and Cox.

I wasn't pissed, I figured he'd probably be shipped back once they took a trip to Miami and he....

If I were a rays fan I'd be pretty pissed too. They gave him hell of an opportunity, basically said F you to the team that was willing to give him it all and now is tearing it up in Cinci. Yeah he was great cleaning himself up but he screwed the rays pretty hard.

No doubt seed, when you look at the big picture it is Josh Hamilton's fallt he's not in a Ray uniform. That still doesnt exempt the Rays FO from a foolish move

Bro I don't care about your links, we're talking about 50 at bats and you wanna crown his butt? Then crown it. I asked for you to keep that garbage out of the Rays thread, you didn't, you felt a need to give the Great White Hope his own thread? I made a crack, same as all those  Dukes and Kaz high jokes I make, or the Bong Bros. jokes.

I have nothing wrong with Hamilton as a man, as a player I don't care what he does.

You need to learn to move on and realize how stupid Cincy was for even thinking about getting him.

[rayfsc07]

Thomas smoked weed, most teenagers / college kids do.
Hamilton did coke, LSD, whatever else, and let his obsession take over the things 'he loves more than anything else' baseball and his wife / kid.

No true simliarities.

Both chose drugs over their teams.  That's the bottom line.  Both have a chance at redemption.  Hamilton seems to be making the most of his, and you see to be bashing him still.  Thomas has a chance as wlel, and I can only hope he makes the most of it as well.  And if he does, I'll be happy for him and cheer him on.

It is also rumored Thomas did GHB. 

[rayfsc07]

You need to learn to move on and realize how stupid Cincy was for even thinking about getting him.

LOL.  Tell me again how it was stupid?

It was a very LOW risk and HIGH reward move for them.  If he didn't pan out what's the worst that happens?  They are out a few bucks and he is off their team.  If he DOES work out what do they get?  Well, you see it now.  A fine player who is still cheap I believe, who is HELPING them win games.  A player who can do it all, immensely talented, and still YOUNG.

Yeah, stupid move!

Oh and that snorting foul lines joke is funny, unless you're a Hamilton homer.

RJ a lot more people than you think have done cocaine before in their life, and there has been plenty of people who were just as good as me or you who have fallen into addiction. I dont judge that man, but I don't condemn it


the joke WAS funny, but it wasn't the first time I heard you say it that day and it was the first thing you said in this thread.