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#15 : April 25, 2007, 07:54:17 AM

After watching opposing QB's make long distance phone calls in the pocket last year, the Bucs have stated repeatedly that their primary offseason goal is to upgrade the pass rush.  To accomplish that goal, we signed Carter and Chukwurah.  The former is a tough vet but is clearly on the downside of his career, the latter is at best a special teams ace/wave pass rusher.  Lets face it, Carter is an aging but productive player with FL ties who wants to play another year or two in the sun before he retires.  Chuk is a fav pupil of Coyer but is a tweener who lacks the ability to be a full-time starter at OLB or DE.  Neither has any upside to speak of.  Meanwhile, we lost White to Detroit's deep pockets, Spires and Rice are another year older and Rice is coming off his worst year as a pro.  BTW, with Carter now in the mix, our top 3 DEs are all in their early to mid thirties.  This aging and underachieving unit is in desperate need of a couple young guns to upgrade the pass rush.  At #4 we are in prime position land the draft undisputed top pass rusher, Gaines Adams  Check the stats, you wont find another college DE with better numbers over the past two years (22 sacks and 32.5 TFLs).  http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/gainesadams.html

Concerned about his size?  At 6-5 260, he compares favorably to the size of some of the league's best DEs including Taylor, Kearse, Umenoria, Ogunleye, Little, Burgess, Suggs, Abraham and Rice.   

Ability to the play the run?  No doubt pass rushing is his strong suit, but plenty of the league's top DEs are like that. That's always going to be the bread and butter of DEs.  That's why they get paid the premium dollars (sacks).  Just as long as he isn't a liability against the run its not an issue.  Adams has always posted respectable tackle numbers and I'm confident in the ability of Coyer and Kiffen to add discipline to his run support skills.  Besides, Adams is essentially a Rice clone and Simeon was never exactly a demon against the run.  But Simeon is better in that area than given credit for and it was Simeon's speed of the edge and backside pursuit that has made the defense hum until recently.  Adams has the potential to have the same impact.

Gruden himself stated in his book that after the QB position, an elite pass rushing DE was the most important position on a football team.  Thus why should we bypass the opportunity to add an elite pass rusher like Adams?  Why would we take Russell, Quinn, Thomas or Peterson over Adams?  We have a plethora of millionaire QB's, a recent top 5 pick invested in former rookie of the year Cadillac Williams and good FA money invested in cool-hand Luke to start at LOT. 

All that being said, Calvin Johnson is the lone player who should be ranked above Adams on the Bucs draft board.  With our well documented offensive woes, Gruden's favortism towards the offense and Johnson's unique skill set, I can understand why this regime is so high on Calvin.  He'll be a Buc if he's still on the board when we are on the clock.  But if he isn't, if Al Davis surprises everyone by taking CJ over Russell or ATL leapfrogs us to draft their hometwon hero, we shouldn't throw in the towel.  Adams' youth, speed, athleticism and pass rushing ability will go a long way towards upgrading our AARP front 7. Add some variation of Griffin, Meriweather, Harrell, Mebane, Tyler, Hughes with our next few picks and we'll have the makings of a fine young defensive core for years to come. 

In terms of a speed rusher there isnt much better. However 620 (Justin) brought up something about Gaines that sounded legit...with NO inside pass rush just how well will Gaines Adams be to us? Usually you pick a first rounder with the mindset that he will win you games next year....how many games will Gaines Adams win for us next year...The Texans took a speed rusher #1 last year and he didnt win them anything.

IMO we go with the player that will be a big part of winning us football games next year (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas) Especially with such a deep draft in DE this season (Anthony Spencer/Moses/Johnson/Abiamiri/McBride) you can pick up a great DE in the second and third rounds of the draft who will make just as big of an impact as Adams this year.

Plus next year the Bucs will be in serious talks with Charles Grant next year...the Adams pick IMO doesnt make sense

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#16 : April 25, 2007, 08:19:02 AM

We need a pass rush but what makes Gaines so great? You defined a need not a player.

How about 22 sacks in two years? How about a dominant senior year despite opponents game planning for him? That is the mark of a quality player. he had a breakout year as a junior and then lost his bookend DE to the draft(Bennett). Despite the extra attention from opposing blocking schemes he was still ACC Def player of the year and All-American as a senior. To show the opposite end of the spectrum, look at the difference between UGA's Moses in his junior and senior years. In college Gaines played bandit end for Clemson, where he not only rushed the passer with great proficiency but at times even showed the athleticism to drop into zone coverage, much like another fast lean DE who has had great success in our defensive scheme (Rice). He's the consensus top d-lineman in the draft and more importantly, the best pass rusher in this class. That is what makes him great.
College stats? Wow that REALLY defines a player...


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#17 : April 25, 2007, 09:58:24 AM

In terms of a speed rusher there isnt much better. However 620 (Justin) brought up something about Gaines that sounded legit...with NO inside pass rush just how well will Gaines Adams be to us? Usually you pick a first rounder with the mindset that he will win you games next year....how many games will Gaines Adams win for us next year...The Texans took a speed rusher #1 last year and he didnt win them anything.

IMO we go with the player that will be a big part of winning us football games next year (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas) Especially with such a deep draft in DE this season (Anthony Spencer/Moses/Johnson/Abiamiri/McBride) you can pick up a great DE in the second and third rounds of the draft who will make just as big of an impact as Adams this year.

Plus next year the Bucs will be in serious talks with Charles Grant next year...the Adams pick IMO doesnt make sense
There was only one defensive tackle in the league last year in the top 25 in sacks (Sapp). So while we got accustomed to Sapp bringing down the QB from the inside, he is/was a rare player and the rest of the teams in the NFL do fine with just pressure off the edges. You don't pick a top 5 player to win you games next year, you pick one to win games the next ten years. Before you write off Mario Williams, consider he notched 4.5 sacks over a 5 game stretch in the middle of the season and then got hurt and his production fell off. And do we need to talk about how Roy Williams turned around the Lions, Andre Johnson the Texans, and Larry Fitzgerald the Cardinals?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#18 : April 25, 2007, 10:03:02 AM


In terms of a speed rusher there isnt much better. However 620 (Justin) brought up something about Gaines that sounded legit...with NO inside pass rush just how well will Gaines Adams be to us? Usually you pick a first rounder with the mindset that he will win you games next year....how many games will Gaines Adams win for us next year...The Texans took a speed rusher #1 last year and he didnt win them anything.

IMO we go with the player that will be a big part of winning us football games next year (Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas) Especially with such a deep draft in DE this season (Anthony Spencer/Moses/Johnson/Abiamiri/McBride) you can pick up a great DE in the second and third rounds of the draft who will make just as big of an impact as Adams this year.

Plus next year the Bucs will be in serious talks with Charles Grant next year...the Adams pick IMO doesnt make sense

I can't believe you think Mario Williams could be classified as a "speed rusher". Mario Williams has decent speed, but he's more of a balanced DE, who can play some DT. He hardly has the game speed of a Simeon Rice. Gaines Adams has that type of speed, which makes him a commodity. Negotiations with Grant next year should have no bearing on what we do for this coming season. Grant isn't a speed rusher either, he's a decent DE, but he's a RDE. there's no reason why we couldn't still sign Grant next year and draft Adams this year if it goes that way.

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#19 : April 25, 2007, 10:04:47 AM

I'm not sure if I would take him at 4.  He is a great talent and Chris Landry(Radio Guy) absolutely loves the guy.  I think it may be a better idea though to take the best DT off the board first because its not a deep class.  On the other hand, DE is very deep in this draft. I'm torn though. I would like seeing him as a Buc.

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#20 : April 25, 2007, 10:07:11 AM

College stats? Wow that REALLY defines a player...

How else would you define a player that hasn't played a down in the NFL yet? College production is the answer if you haven't guess already. Adams has been consistently great at his position for the last two years (as a JR and SR), which is what you wantto see. You's rather see consistently great play than a one year wonder because.

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#21 : April 25, 2007, 10:13:12 AM

I'm not sure if I would take him at 4.  He is a great talent and Chris Landry(Radio Guy) absolutely loves the guy.  I think it may be a better idea though to take the best DT off the board first because its not a deep class.  On the other hand, DE is very deep in this draft. I'm torn though. I would like seeing him as a Buc.
You're essentially saying it would be better to reach on a player who has very little competition at his position instead of taking a player who has lots of competition and has shown himslef to be the best. That said, I think the Lions are taking him and it's a moot point.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#22 : April 25, 2007, 10:13:41 AM

If CJ isn't there I'm not sure that many would have a problem with Adams. Frankly if your just talking impact
for next year Adams would be in the top 3 or 4. Thomas in the long run may be better but next year we have
a left tackle. Someone mentioned how many wins Williams chalked up for the Texans..the Vikings brought in
one of the best lineman in the NFL last year and it didn't make a tremendous difference. I'm not sure any
one guy (other than maybe a QB) buys you that many wins.

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#23 : April 25, 2007, 10:23:44 AM

Good player but I think I'd prefer Okoye.

Fire the cannons!!!



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#24 : April 25, 2007, 10:24:40 AM

Spencer, not Adams.

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#25 : April 25, 2007, 10:30:15 AM

Spencer, not Adams.

Depends on what Detroit does, if they draft a QB then yo ucan bet Spencer is gone a pick ahead of us in the second round. But, Spencer is not as good as Adams. Unless we get JT or CJ, GA should be the next logical choice, or trade down if the option becomes available.



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#26 : April 25, 2007, 10:42:58 AM

Spencer, not Adams.

Depends on what Detroit does, if they draft a QB then yo ucan bet Spencer is gone a pick ahead of us in the second round. But, Spencer is not as good as Adams. Unless we get JT or CJ, GA should be the next logical choice, or trade down if the option becomes available.

I like aspects of Spencer's game better. His game is more complete, he plays the run better and he doesn't take plays off like Adams does. It really depends on what teams they end up with, but I'll say Spencer has the better career. The two are rated very close. If Adams is top 10, then Spencer is top 15 - he dominates. JMO.

I'm worried about Detroit taking him in round 2 as well. Hey, chances are he doesn't make it out of the 1st.

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#27 : April 25, 2007, 10:46:52 AM

Spencer, not Adams.

Depends on what Detroit does, if they draft a QB then yo ucan bet Spencer is gone a pick ahead of us in the second round. But, Spencer is not as good as Adams. Unless we get JT or CJ, GA should be the next logical choice, or trade down if the option becomes available.

I like aspects of Spencer's game better. His game is more complete, he plays the run better and he doesn't take plays off like Adams does. It really depends on what teams they end up with, but I'll say Spencer has the better career. The two are rated very close. If Adams is top 10, then Spencer is top 15 - he dominates. JMO.

I'm worried about Detroit taking him in round 2 as well. Hey, chances are he doesn't make it out of the 1st.

Takes plays off? You'll have to d better than that, because I haven't seen any indication that he has that problem. Not only that but I've watched his play a few times in the past season, and while his game may not be as balanced as Spencers he has a major edge in the pass rush department. Spencer isn't even in the same discussion when it comes to the top DEs prospects this year.

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#28 : April 25, 2007, 11:00:26 AM

Honestly..this get's a bit much. How many here have seen Spencer play? I've seen 2 Purdue games
and I honestly don't recall Spencer's play. I've watched zero Clemson games. Some just read through
some scouting reports and use them as their own opinion. Most of us wouldn't know if a player is
'taking off' a play or not..it depends on his responsiblity on the play.
 It's good for forum fodder I suppose..but unless you've seen them play it's down to the same documented scouting reports we all read.
(and we know how accurate they can be)



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#29 : April 25, 2007, 11:01:14 AM

I'll  let you do the research because I don't have time right now, but I'm not alone in seeing that the guy takes plays off just like Rice.
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