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« #30 : April 27, 2007, 07:53:28 AM »

Drafting a center with 2a would be plain stupid for this football team.

So then  are you good with John Wade next year??

I dont see another Center prospect coming in and starting...Satele is not ready yet

Buenning isnt going to come back for a while

Who else would fit??

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« #31 : April 27, 2007, 08:02:58 AM »

I am perfectly fine with Wade at center.

Center does not require an extraordinary athlete to excel at.  That is why starting centers are rarely drafted high.

Most athletic OL tend to shift to guard or even tackle. 

It is like spending a high pick on a player to play strongside linebacker for the Bucs scheme.  Simply put it is overkill and a poor use of resources when other areas of the team need help.






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« #32 : April 27, 2007, 08:09:25 AM »

Kalil would be a steal in the 2nd saw him play in person at the Rose Bowl 2 years back and he is dominant.

I asked a bunch of USC people about Kalil to get their view.

"Absolute steal in the second if he is there"
"Intellegent"
"Team leader"
"Anchor"
"Most pro ready guy we have coming out this season"
"Athletic"
"Nasty"

If you know USC fan they dont give that title to just anyone

And has a sense of humor
http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/kalil-camp06.html



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« #33 : April 27, 2007, 08:15:05 AM »

I am perfectly fine with Wade at center.

Center does not require an extraordinary athlete to excel at. That is why starting centers are rarely drafted high.

Most athletic OL tend to shift to guard or even tackle.

It is like spending a high pick on a player to play strongside linebacker for the Bucs scheme. Simply put it is overkill and a poor use of resources when other areas of the team need help.





Mangold was selected last year I believe in the first round. He started right away. I think if you asked Jet fan they dont have any ill feelings toward the pick at all

Basically same size as Kalil as well

Nick Mangold
Height: 6-3
Weight: 300
Runs a 5.05 40

Ryan Kalil (Projected as a first rounder by NFLdraftcountdown.com)
Height: 6'2
Weight 299
Runs a 4

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« #34 : April 27, 2007, 08:27:59 AM »

I am perfectly fine with Wade at center.

Center does not require an extraordinary athlete to excel at. That is why starting centers are rarely drafted high.

Most athletic OL tend to shift to guard or even tackle.

It is like spending a high pick on a player to play strongside linebacker for the Bucs scheme. Simply put it is overkill and a poor use of resources when other areas of the team need help.





Mangold was selected last year I believe in the first round. He started right away. I think if you asked Jet fan they dont have any ill feelings toward the pick at all

Basically same size as Kalil as well

Nick Mangold
Height: 6-3
Weight: 300
Runs a 5.05 40

Ryan Kalil (Projected as a first rounder by NFLdraftcountdown.com)
Height: 6'2
Weight 299
Runs a 4

But the Jets hadn't spent a 1st rounder on a guard and 2nd rounder on a right tackle the year before.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #35 : April 27, 2007, 08:58:53 AM »

The Jets spent a top pick on a LT. 

Quote
Mangold was selected last year I believe in the first round. He started right away. I think if you asked Jet fan they dont have any ill feelings toward the pick at all

I have relatives that are Jets fans and they do not share your view 100%.  They do not hate the Mangold pick but at the same time they feel he is not on the same level as Kevin Mawae was in a Jets uni and Mangold probably will never be on the same level as Mawae.



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« #36 : April 27, 2007, 09:02:19 AM »

But the Jets hadn't spent a 1st rounder on a guard and 2nd rounder on a right tackle the year before.

Nope....but the 06 selection of Mangold in round one followed a second round selection in 05 of Mike Nugent....A kicker






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« #37 : April 27, 2007, 09:07:01 AM »

The Jets spent a top pick on a LT.

Quote
Mangold was selected last year I believe in the first round. He started right away. I think if you asked Jet fan they dont have any ill feelings toward the pick at all

I have relatives that are Jets fans and they do not share your view 100%. They do not hate the Mangold pick but at the same time they feel he is not on the same level as Kevin Mawae was in a Jets uni and Mangold probably will never be on the same level as Mawae.


as we all know you cant please everyone...no matter who we pick #4 tomorrow somone is gonna po'ed
Calvin Johnson-People will gripe about OL and DL
Joe Thomas-People will gripe again about DL
Gaines Adams- People will gripe about not taking JT if he was there

I expect some boos tomorrow regardless...its what we do best   ;D

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« #38 : April 27, 2007, 09:09:15 AM »

The Jets spent a top pick on a LT.
As well they should have. That's the best place to get a good one.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #39 : April 27, 2007, 10:17:34 AM »

Everyone has their own opinion on the Draft Value of Centers, so I thought it might be helpful to see when the projected starters (or last year's starting centers) were drafted.  I did this rather quickly, so I apologize that the depth of information is not uniform.  (Disclaimer: most teams do not have a depth chart yet, so I had to go with what I knew of the team - someone who follows a team more closely may know more about who their center will be than I do)

Bills: Melvin Fowler: 3rd rd (11th pick in the round)
Dolphins: Rex Hadnot: rd 6
Patriots: Dan Koppen: rd 5
Jets: Nick Mangold: 1st rd (29th pick in the draft)
Ravens: Mike Flynn: Undrafted in 1998
Bengals: Rich Braham: Rd 4
Browns: LeCharles Bently: Rd 2 (12th pick in the round)
              Hank Frayley: Undrafted 8 years ago
Steelers: Marvin Philip: 6th Rd
Texans: Mike Flanagan: 3rd Rd (90th pick in the draft)
Colts: Jeff Sturday: Undrafted (8 years ago)
Jaguars: Brad Meester 2nd Rd (29th pick in the round)
Titans: Kevin Mawae: 2nd Rd (7th pick in the round)
Broncos: Tom Nalen: 7th Rd (13 years ago)
Chiefs: Casey Wiegmann: Undrafted 11 years ago
Raiders: Jake Grove: 2nd rd (13th pick in the round)
Chargers: Nick Hardwick: 3rd Rd
Dallas: Andre Gurode: 2nd Rd
Giants: Shaun OHara: Undrafted (7 years ago)
Eagles: Jamaal Jackson: Undrafted in 2003
Redskins: Casey Rabach: 3rd Rd
Bears: Olin Kreutz: 3rd Rd (#64 overall)
Lions: Dominic Raiola: 2nd Rd (#50 overall)
Packers: Scott Wells: Rd 7
Vikings: Matt Birk: 6th Rd (1998 from Harvard)
Cardinals: Nick Leckey: 6th Rd
Rams: Andy McCollum: Undrafted 14 years ago
           Richie Incognito: 3rd Rd
49ers: Tony Wragge: Undrafted
Seahawks: Chris Spencer: 1st Rd (26th Pick overall)
Falcons: Todd McClure: 7th Rd (1999)
Panthers: Justin Hartwig: 6th Rd
Saints: Jeff Faine: 1st Rd (21st pick overall)
Bucs: John Wade: 5th Rd (1998)

Quick Analysis:
Round 1: 3
Round 2: 6
Round 3: 6
FIRST DAY PICKS: 15
Round 4: 1
Round 5: 2
Round 6: 5
Round 7: 3
SECOND DAY PICKS: 11
Undrafted: 8


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« #40 : April 27, 2007, 10:39:04 AM »

I thought it might also be useful to look at how many Centers have been chosen on the first day of the draft in the last 10 years.

I counted 26 Centers drafted on the 1st day in the last 10 years; 4 in the first round, 11 in the second round, and 11 in the 3rd round.

2006:
1(29) Nick Mangold - Jets
2(19) Ryan Cook - Vikings
2(24) Chris Chester - Ravens
3(11) Jason Spitz - Packers

2005:
1(26) Chris Spencer - Seahawks
2(1) David Bass - 49ers
3(17) Richie Incognito - Rams

2004:
2(13) Jake Grove - Raiders
3(3) Nick Hardwick - Chargers

2003:
1(21) Jeff Faine - Browns
2(6) Al Johnson - Cowboys
2(18) Bruce Nelson - Panthers

2002:
2(12) LeCharles Bently - Saints
3(1) Fred Weary - Texans
3(11) Melvin Fowler - Browns
3(25) Seth McKinney - Dolphins

2001:
2(19) Dominic Raiola - Lions
3(30) Casey Rabach - Ravens

2000:
2(29) Brad Meester - Jaguars
3(32) John St.Clair - Rams

1999:
1(17) Damien Woody - Patriots
2(30) Lennie Friedman - Broncos
3(11) Grey Ruegamer - Dolphins

1998:
2(28) Jeremy Newberry - 49ers
3(3) Olin Kreutz - Bears
3(16) Rod Payne - Bengals

I find it interesting that many of the teams that have older late-round or undrafted centers, also have young guys that they recently drafted in the 1st day.


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« #41 : April 27, 2007, 10:43:28 AM »

By contrast, lets look at the Centers that the Bucs have drafted in the last 10 years:

2003: 4th Rd (36th pick in the round) Austin King
2002: 7th Rd (44th pick in the round) Zach Quaccia
1998: 4th Rd (12th pick in the round) Todd Washington




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« #42 : April 27, 2007, 10:54:48 AM »

How many out of that list can be listed as "elite"

The fact that a center rated as high as Kalil and Mangold is rated that high and so many were drafted "and starting" so low rated doesnt really factor

Thats like saying why take a Joe Thomas because theres always Adam Koets there in the 4th round

Yes a center is not the "sexy" position but have have to take a look at it this way....when the camera is peered down in the OL what player is up calling blocking schemes and audibles on that line??? The Center

Kalil is very smart...and good at picking up blitz packages

Who is responsible for snapping the ball (in a shotgun situation) to a QB?? The center (we never seen Wade play a shotgun but Kalil used it extensively at USC)

Who comes off the snap to open holes up the middle for a running back when the 330 lbs DT is bull rushing??? The Center

Look at the tape guys Wade couldnt block a DT to save his life...we had so many TFL on Caddy from DT breaking free of John Wade and running wild sometimes before the freaking handoff was made!! [banghead] [banghead]

A lot can be blamed on the talent of the Offensive linemen howevr its interesting to find out just how many blown OL plays came really from the Linemen being that bad....or just in the wrong position

 The center is the QB of the offensive line....if there is a guy breaking free untouched...a linemen out of position...its on the center

This seems to be looked over too much

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« #43 : April 27, 2007, 11:09:44 AM »

I dont understand why NFL teams dont put alot of stock into guards and centers in the 1st rd

It's the interior of the line, it's 3/5ths' of the entire line as well

We are in a good position to get a solid center or guard early in rd 2.

Ben Grubbs or Justin Blalock would be a very good pick for us as well

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« #44 : April 27, 2007, 11:21:03 AM »

I dont understand why NFL teams dont put alot of stock into guards and centers in the 1st rd

It's the interior of the line, it's 3/5ths' of the entire line as well

We are in a good position to get a solid center or guard early in rd 2.

Ben Grubbs or Justin Blalock would be a very good pick for us as well
It's been pointed out on here numerous times that basically all offensive lines are 2-3 high priced players who stay with the team a long time and then 2-3 anonymous players who fill in the rest. For good lines almost universally the best and highest paid player is the left tackle. For example Philly has 1st round picks in Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews and a healthy free agent aquisition in John Runyan. The other two guys don't matter because those three are so good. That's how you're supposed to do it. You have 22 starters on a team, plus kicker, punter, and key backups. You can't spend too many premium picks on the line with so many other positions that have needs.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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