If we dont take Ryan Kalil

I dont understand why NFL teams dont put alot of stock into guards and centers in the 1st rd

It's the interior of the line, it's 3/5ths' of the entire line as well

We are in a good position to get a solid center or guard early in rd 2.

Ben Grubbs or Justin Blalock would be a very good pick for us as well

I think its that before Centers were not seen as a postion that were of great need.
You could get a quality center late to fill a hole
Orlando Pace was drafted wasnt he the highest ever OL took or something like that...it was commonplace that OL is not something you draft that high.
However just like everything else there comes a time when the elite guys like a Mangold/Kalil come out that have great ability...and change the game.

Hey, its ok if people dont agree...I just see Thomas and Kalil as the missing pieces of this line. After that Gruden can exhale and say I built my line...I can run my offense...I can put my TE in paterns now

I just think we would be better

[Feel Real Good]

I think its that before Centers were not seen as a postion that were of great need.
You could get a quality center late to fill a hole
Orlando Pace was drafted wasnt he the highest ever OL took or something like that...it was commonplace that OL is not something you draft that high.
However just like everything else there comes a time when the elite guys like a Mangold/Kalil come out that have great ability...and change the game.

Hey, its ok if people dont agree...I just see Thomas and Kalil as the missing pieces of this line. After that Gruden can exhale and say I built my line...I can run my offense...I can put my TE in paterns now

I just think we would be better

Orlando Pace may have been the 1st offensive tackle to go #1, but it was never commonplace to stay away from left tackles high. Ogden went #4 the year before, Bosellis went #2 in 1995, Willie Roaf and Lincoln Kenndy went #8 and #9 in 1993, Bob Whitfield went #8 in 1992, Charles McRae (d'oh!) and Antone Davis went #7 and #8 in 1991, Richmond Webb went #9 in 1990, and so on. Of course Thomas and Kalil would be huge additions, but to insist Gruden needs 4 1st day picks and 1 high 4th rounder on his line to run his offense is sorry coaching because no other team in the league has that luxury.

We have never had a solid offensive line...even during the superbowl year we were bad. Grruden has always said he needed to rebuild this line...IMO he would complete that right now

However one thing I can say I dont recall our line looking mechanically as bad as it does now when we had Jeff Christy at Center

[Lamond]

nice stuff there

[RangerBuc]

UTSPARTAN, I actually agree with you.  I think that if Kalil is there at #35, we have to very seriously consider taking him.  Now if we pick Joe Thomas in the 1st, that might change my assessment a little, but does not necessarily rule it out in my mind.

I did not have time to fully analyze the numbers earlier, but if you look, I am sure someone like Feel Real Good will say that they support his claims, but actually, I think they refute them more because right now, at least 15 teams have first day picks in their starting center (or the guy the plan to be their starter soon).  Also, if you look at the undrafted or late-round centers, many of them entered the NFL 8-10 (or more) years ago (yes there are some younger exceptions).  I thought we might have been seeing a shift in the importance of the position, but even looking beyond the last 10 years, there have been centers picked in the 1st or early second round almost every year (1996-1998 is kind of an anomaly).

Now, I know that we also need to address our defensive line with some premium picks as well.  It will be a complex decision to make, and a lot will depend on what DEs are still on the board, and what we do with the 1st pick.  If we take Thomas with our 1st round pick, then we have a situation where Davis can become a full time Guard, giving us 4 strong positions on the line, and possibly giving us some options with Beunning or one of the other young guys learning center (yes, I know none of them look to have the potential of Kalil, but we cannot afford to be strong everywhere).  If we select Adams, or trade down and get someone like Okoye or Carriker, then we should look to target Kalil with 2a, and still get another solid D-line prospect at 2b and a safety at 3.  If we stay at 4 and take Calvin Johnson, then we potentially have a difficult decision on our hands at 2a because we still need to help both the o-line and d-line, and right now, I lean towards the o-line just because the depth of DEs, there should still be a pretty good one at 2b (and we will only get a pretty good one at 2a) and the best we will get on the line after 2a will be someone “serviceable� or a project.

[Feel Real Good]

I did not have time to fully analyze the numbers earlier, but if you look, I am sure someone like Feel Real Good will say that they support his claims, but actually, I think they refute them more because right now, at least 15 teams have first day picks in their starting center (or the guy the plan to be their starter soon).  Also, if you look at the undrafted or late-round centers, many of them entered the NFL 8-10 (or more) years ago (yes there are some younger exceptions).  I thought we might have been seeing a shift in the importance of the position, but even looking beyond the last 10 years, there have been centers picked in the 1st or early second round almost every year (1996-1998 is kind of an anomaly).

Let's look at some of the better lines in the league and see where their players came from:

San Diego
LT Marcus McNeil - 2nd round pick 2006
LG Kris Dielman - undrafted 2003
C Nick Hardwick - 3rd round pick 2004
RG Mike Goff - 3rd round 1998 Bengals
RT Shane Olivea - 7th round pick 2004

Jacksonville
LT Khalif Barnes - 2nd round 2005
LG Vince Manuwai - 3rd round 2003
C Brad Meester - 2nd round 2000
RG Chris Naole - 1st round 1997 Saints
RT Maurice Williams - 2nd round 2001

Philadelphia
LT Tra Thomas - 1st round
LG Todd Herremsns - 4th round 2005
C Jamaal Jackson - undrafted 2003
RG Shawn Andrews - 2004 1st round
RT Jon Runyan - 1996 Oilers 4th round

Indianapolis
LT Tarik Glenn - 1st round 1997
LG Ryan Lilja - undrafted 2004
C Jeff Saturday - undrafted 1999
RG Jake Scott - 5th round 2004
RT Ryan Diem - 4th round 2001

Baltimore
LT Jonathan Ogden - 1st round 1996
LG Jason Brown - 4th round 2005
C Mike Flynn - undrafted 1997
RG Keydrick Vincent - undrafted 2001 Steelers
RT Adam Terry - 2nd round 2005

New Orleans
LT Jamaal Brown - 1st round 2005
LG Jamar Nesbitt - 1999 Panthers
C Jeff Faine - 2003 Browns
RG Jahri Evans - 4th round 2006
RT Jon Stinchcomb - 1st round 2003

Seattle
LT Walter Jones - 1st round 1997
LG Floyd Womack - 4th round 2001
C Chris Spencer - 1st round 2005
RG Chris Gray - 5th round 1993 Dolphins
RT Sean Locklear - 3rd round 2004

Pittsburgh
LT Marvel Smith - 2nd round 2000
LG Alan Faneca - 1st round 1998
C Jeff Hartings - 1st round 1996 Lions
RG Kendall Simmons - 1st round 2002
RT Max Starks - 4th round 2004

New England
LT Matt Light - 2nd round 2001
LG Logan Mankins - 1st round 2005
C Dan Koppen - 5th round 2003
RG Steve Neal - undrafted 2001
RT Nick Kaczur - 3rd round 2005

Obviously there are players from all over the place. Notice they all have 1st or 2nd round left tackles. Also notice the Bucs had the opportunity to draft all but Ogden and Tra Thomas. Pittsburgh and Jacksonville probably have the players with the highest pedigrees but notice how spaced apart they all are. You don't see any clusters like the two year Joseph/Trueblood/Thomas/Kalil combo some are suggesting.