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rayfsc07

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: April 27, 2007, 08:37:12 PM

I really want to forget these past few years, it was hard to watch such a great team, play so poorly. Glad to hear many of the players are maturing though, I hope this helps out, for when the season starts.


Not sure that I agree that FSU was a "great team" the last few years. Over that 6 year period there seemed to be dwindling number of top NFL picks produced not that this is the only indicator.

Below are the # of 1st rounders since 2000 Weinke Warrick and companies last year
 # '1's
2000 - 4 = MNC loss to Oklahoma record 11-2

2001- 2 = Gator Bowl Win 8-4

2002 - 1 = BCS Sugar Loss to Ga 9-5

2003 - 0 = BCS Orange Loss to Miami 10-3

2004 - 0 = Gator Bowl Win West Virginia 9-3

2005 - 2 = BCS Orange Bowl loss to PSU 8-5

2006 - 4 = Emerald Bowl Win UCLA 7-6 Note - Cromartie missed entire 2005 season.


2007 ?

Don't shoot me, but I'm not sure I see what Cromartie and the other 06 draft picks had to do with the 06 record.  Technically the 06 draft picks would have been on the 05 team, the 05 picks on 04, etc.

I just think it's a bit misleading to put FSU had 4 #1 picks and went 7-6.  Really those 4 #1 picks were on the 8-5 04 team. 

But really, if what your numbers say are correct I think what 3rd string kicker said is true.  6 #1 picks the last 2 drafts and a 17-8 record to show for it.  I think most will agree the coaching has been bad, which is why you had guys like Washington struggle at FSU but so far have been fairly productive in the NFL.  Fortunately for FSU fans the School seems to have addressed those coaching deficiencies and the season looks more promising than any season since 2000 IMO.

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#1 : April 26, 2007, 04:49:13 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=2840275



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#2 : April 26, 2007, 11:41:26 PM

I really want to forget these past few years, it was hard to watch such a great team, play so poorly. Glad to hear many of the players are maturing though, I hope this helps out, for when the season starts.



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#3 : April 26, 2007, 11:58:07 PM

"No. 32 and 35, their running has improved, I think," Bowden says, referring to Joe Surratt and Marcus Sims, respectively. "I saw a difference. Last year, 33 [Jamaal Edwards] danced all the time, you know it? Now he's really putting his pads down. That's encouraging. That's encouraging."


I know Bowden's a southern guy (which means he doesnt know proper english) but wow I couldnt help but think he was an idiot after readin this. He sounds like Rainman

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#4 : April 27, 2007, 02:29:09 PM

"No. 32 and 35, their running has improved, I think," Bowden says, referring to Joe Surratt and Marcus Sims, respectively. "I saw a difference. Last year, 33 [Jamaal Edwards] danced all the time, you know it? Now he's really putting his pads down. That's encouraging. That's encouraging."


I know Bowden's a southern guy (which means he doesnt know proper english) but wow I couldnt help but think he was an idiot after readin this. He sounds like Rainman


The "winningest idiot" in Division One history,  but you are correct his grammar leaves much to be desired!!!

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#5 : April 27, 2007, 03:21:02 PM

I really want to forget these past few years, it was hard to watch such a great team, play so poorly. Glad to hear many of the players are maturing though, I hope this helps out, for when the season starts.


Not sure that I agree that FSU was a "great team" the last few years. Over that 6 year period there seemed to be dwindling number of top NFL picks produced not that this is the only indicator.

Below are the #  of 1st rounders since 2000  Weinke Warrick and companies last year
         # '1's
2000    - 4    =  MNC loss to Oklahoma  record 11-2

2001-     2     =  Gator Bowl Win  8-4

2002 -    1       =  BCS Sugar  Loss to Ga 9-5

2003 -    0   =   BCS  Orange    Loss to Miami 10-3

2004 -    0  =    Gator Bowl  Win West Virginia  9-3

2005 -    2  =    BCS  Orange Bowl loss to PSU 8-5

2006 -   4  =    Emerald Bowl   Win UCLA  7-6  Note - Cromartie missed entire 2005 season.


2007   ?

Runole

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#6 : April 27, 2007, 10:07:19 PM

The point with the draft picks was showing the following seasons record after losing those players.  Probably should have put them in there differently and the season previous associated with the draft picks of that season.
=============================================================================================

The real point is FSU at least in terms of #1 draft picks showed a real decline during the 6 year period. Also, Of those (11)  # 1 picks only Warrick, Walker, and Barron were offensive players. The other 11 were defensive.   3 to 8 shows that there was a dearth of offensive talent during the JB tenure as OC. The biggest loss  to me was lack of suitable experienced replacement when Weinke left over that 6 year period.  From Jarad Jones to "project Rix" to led astray Mcpherson, to NCAA dogged Fabian Walker, to a whole new batch of inexperienced QB's, FSU never could seem to get untracked offensively. It could be that QB coach **CENSORED**ey could be blamed for the lack of development but I still think there were other factors in play from injuries, to discipline problems, to complacency, and caution due to a tragic death. Lots of reasons.


Another point that many FSU fans fail to notice is while JB left, almost the entire Offensive staff was replaced.  So clearly it wasn't just everyone's "favorite Scapegoat" JB's fault for the decline.

You will not get an argument from me that JB was over his head as a OC, but as everyone knows it is a team sport and the total dismantling of the Offensive staff clearly points to more than JB being the problem.


With Fisher, Dawsey, Trickett , and Carter finally in the fold it took some real maneuvering for Bobby and FSU to get this potentially great staff together. It would seem it is an ideal mix of both talented teachers and a couple of young former players that know the FSU way.  Rewards are already being shown on the recruting trail as FSU has verbal committments from 7 top players ( if recruiting rankings are to be believed) with this new staff in place. Bowden appears more energized than ever.  That being said the attitude change in FSU will not happen over night especially with the toughest schedule among the Big three next season.

6 of the 7 are defensive players so it appears many of the offensive ones may be taking a wait and see approach.  The 3 LB picks look strong.


As to the coaching staff deficiencies,  I certainly agree it was time for a complete overhaul of the entire Offensive staff which Bobby accomplished after the voluntary exit of JB.

That being said when should have such a complete overhaul taken place???  Should  it have occurred right after FSU lost to Oklahoma after its 3rd straight appearance in the MNC game when Richt left?  20/20 hindsight would say yes with what transpired over the next 6 years but going back to that point in time if Bobby Bowden stated: " Well we just lost to Oklahoma in our third straight designated BCS championship game so it is time to clean house and I am replacing almost  my entire offensive staff!"   IMHO that would have been a patently ridiculous thought and totally out of character in the way Bowden has always mentored the FSU program.  FSU and Bowden don't operate that way hence he chose the smoothest transition with the loss of Mark Richt with as little disruption possible.

It didn't work , and with many other contributing factors that happened over the next 6 years the proper transition was finally accomplished.  Seriously, it probably should have been done really much earlier than 2000, but again that isn't the way FSU and Bowden have run the program.

Sometimes you need a  young energetic staff to give shot of adrenalin to complaceny that set in after such an incredible run of success. It would appear that Bowden once again showed why he is thought of so highly of in college football today. He didn't become the winningest coach alltime without just a bit of knowledge on what it takes to make a successful program.

rayfsc07

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#7 : April 27, 2007, 10:49:21 PM

Well, I saw 4 and 2, then a decline for 3 years, then 2 and 4 again.

So yeah, a decline but the last 2 years looks like it was on the rise again.   

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#8 : April 28, 2007, 09:39:31 PM

Other than Alex Barron ,there were no offensive players selected from FSU in the first round the last 4 years.  Completely shut out in 2003 and 2004.


Personally, I believe most of the problems offensively were with inconsistent and inexperienced QB ing plus generally poor OL play the 3-4 years.

The old offensive staff may have become far too complacent but most of them were all present for most of Decade when FSU was truly dominating all of football.


While I think the new staff is energized and will bring excellent results I don't believe it will happen overnight.  Lots of changes usually means mistakes.

While the Spring game didn't show much certainly the recruiting has picked up!! I can't remember when FSU had this many firm oral committments this early. Truly amazing!!

rayfsc07

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#9 : April 28, 2007, 11:24:29 PM

IF the oral commitments hold up, that is.

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#10 : April 28, 2007, 11:43:01 PM

IF the oral commitments hold up, that is.

Yes oral committments aren't the same as LOI's  but the one's FSU has so far do appear pretty solid as many already on the phones calling other High School stars around the state to commit to FSU.   I believe that Williams and Bradham have already stated they are hitting the phones. Probably "text messaging" too!  ;D :D

rayfsc07

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#11 : April 28, 2007, 11:46:21 PM

IF the oral commitments hold up, that is.

Yes oral committments aren't the same as LOI's but the one's FSU has so far do appear pretty solid as many already on the phones calling other High School stars around the state to commit to FSU. I believe that Williams and Bradham have already stated they are hitting the phones. Probably "text messaging" too! ;D :D

Nothing today is "solid."

This time last year UF was solid with guys like Van Dyke, and others, yet they ended up elsewhere.  You can be happy all you want with these "solid" commits but fact is once they see how the season unfolds anything can happen.

We saw that last year.

Of course as an FSU fan I can understand your excitement.  Their play certainly hasn't warranted any excitement recently. 

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#12 : April 29, 2007, 09:07:05 AM

Was Van Dyke phoning other high school seniors to attend UF? I know Tebow did when he orally committed to UF that certainly turned out to be a most solid committment to UF.   

I most certainly agree that Oral committments are very tenuous and aren't anything until they sign the dotted line. It still is unprecedented for FSU to have so many orally committed so early. Historically, FSU has usually waited until the last few weeks before signing day to get the majority of committments. I guess these new ones are "EXCITED" about coming to FSU??   Most surprising considering FSU's last few seasons.  Guess they just have dreamed of being Noles and like the direction the program is heading. 

It still is most attractive to state you got to  play for a "Living Coaching Legend".  Now Bobby brings the added benefit of  now overseeing arguably one of potentially the best coaching staffs in America.  Could this be why so many are committing so early to FSU??? Who Knows? As a FSU fan I am certainly not complaining!!


If they are basing their committment on the results of next season, they certainly aren't the type of recruit FSU is looking for so it probably would be best for them to go somewhere else.  Those "grass is always greener" types lack"the character" that FSU is looking for.   

Of course sometimes recruits change their minds when they realize they have been lied to by those recruiting them and they find out there are 100 offers for the 18 to 25 slots, and that their committment will mean nothing as the school that accepted them suddenly finds a possible better replacement and kicks them to the curb ignoring their oral committment.  Some Schools have been absolutely shameful with this practice.


FSU historically has always stood firm to those that committed to them, and also has historically kept their offer as a 4-5 year scholly not a 1 year deal like some schools.  Different strokes for different folks.  JMHO but I think such committment is most honorable and ethical.  Just another reason why I respect Bowden so much.  I like his integrity on such matters.



How about the the NFL DRAFT??    Anyone else notice the following?     Could this be an additional reason for recruits to come to FSU?

2006 draft - #1 overall pick - Mario Williams - Chuck Amato
2007 draft - #1 overall pick - Jamarcus Russell - Jimbo Fisher
--- and a shout out to LT for being the 1st player taken from the state of FL!
As well as  the most picks from a state school on day 1  of the NFL draft. ( 4)





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#13 : April 29, 2007, 12:12:07 PM

Was Van Dyke phoning other high school seniors to attend UF? I know Tebow did when he orally committed to UF that certainly turned out to be a most solid committment to UF.

I most certainly agree that Oral committments are very tenuous and aren't anything until they sign the dotted line. It still is unprecedented for FSU to have so many orally committed so early. Historically, FSU has usually waited until the last few weeks before signing day to get the majority of committments. I guess these new ones are "EXCITED" about coming to FSU?? Most surprising considering FSU's last few seasons. Guess they just have dreamed of being Noles and like the direction the program is heading.

It still is most attractive to state you got to play for a "Living Coaching Legend". Now Bobby brings the added benefit of now overseeing arguably one of potentially the best coaching staffs in America. Could this be why so many are committing so early to FSU??? Who Knows? As a FSU fan I am certainly not complaining!!


If they are basing their committment on the results of next season, they certainly aren't the type of recruit FSU is looking for so it probably would be best for them to go somewhere else. Those "grass is always greener" types lack"the character" that FSU is looking for.

Of course sometimes recruits change their minds when they realize they have been lied to by those recruiting them and they find out there are 100 offers for the 18 to 25 slots, and that their committment will mean nothing as the school that accepted them suddenly finds a possible better replacement and kicks them to the curb ignoring their oral committment. Some Schools have been absolutely shameful with this practice.


FSU historically has always stood firm to those that committed to them, and also has historically kept their offer as a 4-5 year scholly not a 1 year deal like some schools. Different strokes for different folks. JMHO but I think such committment is most honorable and ethical. Just another reason why I respect Bowden so much. I like his integrity on such matters.



How about the the NFL DRAFT?? Anyone else notice the following? Could this be an additional reason for recruits to come to FSU?

2006 draft - #1 overall pick - Mario Williams - Chuck Amato
2007 draft - #1 overall pick - Jamarcus Russell - Jimbo Fisher
--- and a shout out to LT for being the 1st player taken from the state of FL!
As well as the most picks from a state school on day 1 of the NFL draft. ( 4)






LOL, which says a lot about your "living legend."

The  most day one picks and the WORST record among major schools in FL!  Congratulations!

Bobby is living legend, but he is washed up as a coach.  That is why the smart kids choose Coach Meyer and staff over FSU.  2 straight years Meyer has recruited better classes than Bowden, I don't think this year will be any difefrent.

Good luck though!

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#14 : April 29, 2007, 08:36:38 PM

"Bobby is living legend, but he is washed up as a coach.  That is why the smart kids choose Coach Meyer and staff over FSU.  2 straight years Meyer has recruited better classes than Bowden, I don't think this year will be any difefrent."


I find it most refreshing that most of the CFB world holds a different opinion than you.   Oh and just for the record both FSU and Miami finished with 7-6 records and FSU did beat Miami.   I can understand you making this mistake since UF has a real problem playing Miami annually and quite naturally you might not be aware of their record.

Do I detect extreme hatred for FSU?  Hmmmm?    FSU is recruiting well despite your attempts to diminish the current  direction of Bowden and company have made with their newest oral committments this season. It would appear that FSU despite last seasons record remains a good choice for top high school prospects interested in an NFL career. 


Be happy UF has a MNC in Football.  No need to try to diminish others that are on the road back.    Try and act like the fan of  a champion for a change.

I would hope most gator fans aren't so lacking in class as you portray.  I also find your psuedo- arrogance most unbecoming.



As to your prediction of a better class next season one would certainly hope so.  After all the reigning MNC champions should recruit well.

Of course based on early returns that just might not be the case.   So does UF go undefeated this year with their far less daunting schedule?   If they don't they most certainly will be going in the wrong direction.  Certainly, they won't need any luck to go undefeated with the 2007 schedule. Right??
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