What the Gruden haters dont want to admit or are not smart enough to realize

[Feel Real Good]

Which is one of the main reasons Pitt is one of the more successfull franchises.  When Chuck Noll took over in 1969 the next four years the team went 1-13, 5-9, 6-8 before his first playoff year.  Now days after 2 seasons people would be screaming for the guillotine.  On the other hand, has Detroit, AZ, Atlanta, or NO had any coach for more than five years?  Teams that show patience (with their HC) consistently outperform the teams that take the revoling door approach.

Those calling for Gru-Allens heads will be calling for someone elses head in 2-3years, if they get their way.

Chuck Noll took over a brand new team with no roster and no free agency. Comparing his first three years to the modern NFL is irrelevant.

[cheveliar]

Telling me he should have won the game just doesn't wash with me...Takes 11, not 1 to get it done.

So your stand is that, let's see, neithe rplayers nor coaches are to blame or they are both to blame in some mysterious blend. That's a nice "no I in team" sort of fortune cookie thought but then what is your criteria for evaluating a coach? At some point someone takes responsibility for a team, a department or a company.

Isn't it largely accepted that there's no I in team.  So why is it different for a coach?  Isn't he a critical part of the team.  We accept that fact that you can't fire all 53 players so my notion isn't far fetched it's less than hypocritcal to say the least...

[John Galt?]

Which is one of the main reasons Pitt is one of the more successfull franchises. When Chuck Noll took over in 1969 the next four years the team went 1-13, 5-9, 6-8 before his first playoff year. Now days after 2 seasons people would be screaming for the guillotine. On the other hand, has Detroit, AZ, Atlanta, or NO had any coach for more than five years? Teams that show patience (with their HC) consistently outperform the teams that take the revoling door approach.

Those calling for Gru-Allens heads will be calling for someone elses head in 2-3years, if they get their way.

Chuck Noll took over a brand new team with no roster and no free agency. Comparing his first three years to the modern NFL is irrelevant.

 

Art Rooney (Sr.) founded the team in 1933 how is that "brand new"?

[dalbuc]

Isn't it largely accepted that there's no I in team.  So why is it different for a coach?  Isn't he a critical part of the team.  We accept that fact that you can't fire all 53 players so my notion isn't far fetched it's less than hypocritcal to say the least...

Yeah what is hypocritical is why any coach gets fired? Go dig up Richard Williamson so you aren't a hypocrite, heck there's no way he had a chance with that roster. Apologize to Dungy for his firing, there's no "I" in team.

[cobraboy]

First move would have been to draft Steven Jackson instead of Michael Clayton. The next year we wouldn't have needed Cadillac and could have gotten Jamaal Brown. Two pro bowlers right there for the taking.

Where can I get one of those 20/20 rear view mirrors? Man, I'd be a BBS Superstar!

[Feel Real Good]

First move would have been to draft Steven Jackson instead of Michael Clayton. The next year we wouldn't have needed Cadillac and could have gotten Jamaal Brown. Two pro bowlers right there for the taking.

Where can I get one of those 20/20 rear view mirrors? Man, I'd be a BBS Superstar!

You can say it's hindsight, but these decisions are what affect wins and losses. Last year at this time the Dolphins were deciding whether to sign Drew Brees or Daunte Culpepper. They decided on Culpepper and ended up with a new coach and drafting in the top 10 while the Saints went to the NFC title game. You want the people running your team to get these decisions right and I can't say the Bucs have that right now.

[dalbuc]

First move would have been to draft Steven Jackson instead of Michael Clayton. The next year we wouldn't have needed Cadillac and could have gotten Jamaal Brown. Two pro bowlers right there for the taking.

Where can I get one of those 20/20 rear view mirrors? Man, I'd be a BBS Superstar!

I wish I could get you and Chev to run a team. He'd never fire a coach and you'd never fire a GM since most picks look good "at the time".

[cheveliar]

First move would have been to draft Steven Jackson instead of Michael Clayton. The next year we wouldn't have needed Cadillac and could have gotten Jamaal Brown. Two pro bowlers right there for the taking.

Where can I get one of those 20/20 rear view mirrors? Man, I'd be a BBS Superstar!

So what you gonna do sit there and second guess yourself after every pick?  That's why they have you...

I wish I could get you and Chev to run a team. He'd never fire a coach and you'd never fire a GM since most picks look good "at the time".

[Feel Real Good]

First move would have been to draft Steven Jackson instead of Michael Clayton. The next year we wouldn't have needed Cadillac and could have gotten Jamaal Brown. Two pro bowlers right there for the taking.

Where can I get one of those 20/20 rear view mirrors? Man, I'd be a BBS Superstar!

I wish I could get you and Chev to run a team. He'd never fire a coach and you'd never fire a GM since most picks look good "at the time".

So what you gonna do sit there and second guess yourself after every pick?  That's why they have you...

So let's forget for a second we're talking about the team everyone on here likes. Let's say we're talking about the Browns. Do you think their fans have a reason to say "Hey, how come we keep sucking every year? How come we keep drafting these average to below average players and teams that are picking behind us keep getting better players than us?" Should they second guess or just say let's support the players we have?

[dalbuc]

So what you gonna do sit there and second guess yourself after every pick?  That's why they have you...

Any organization that doesn't review why they did what they did and how they could have done better has an issue. If 3 years after a draft it is obvious that Clayton is a flop and Steve Jax is "the man" I'd want to know, since we needed the RB as well, what criteria we used to make the bad pick and how to avoid it again.

Plus, if you are running the show and you have people you can consistently look at them and think, "Wow, they could have picked player X and should have" that's how you know you have an issue. If your front office goes and picks Peter Warrick, Tim Couch, Andre Wadsworth, and Bryant Westbrook you'd best be doing some serious hindsighting since that historical view tells you your front office's foresight isn't what it needs to be and that is what they get paid to do.

[rowdie]

My biggest problem with Gruden is the fact that it seems his first prioroty is to find a QB that on paper fits his system, if he can run then he has a shot, if he can't then he is on the sh!t list.

Well then let me be the first to inform you your biggest problem with Gruden is someone lied to you about the "facts".

[cheveliar]

So what you gonna do sit there and second guess yourself after every pick? That's why they have you...

Any organization that doesn't review why they did what they did and how they could have done better has an issue. If 3 years after a draft it is obvious that Clayton is a flop and Steve Jax is "the man" I'd want to know, since we needed the RB as well, what criteria we used to make the bad pick and how to avoid it again.

Plus, if you are running the show and you have people you can consistently look at them and think, "Wow, they could have picked player X and should have" that's how you know you have an issue. If your front office goes and picks Peter Warrick, Tim Couch, Andre Wadsworth, and Bryant Westbrook you'd best be doing some serious hindsighting since that historical view tells you your front office's foresight isn't what it needs to be and that is what they get paid to do.

Yeah, I like the ring Jackson has and I'm sure he's looking forward to collecting more of them soon...We all know that stats are what takes you to a championship.  Granted M80 needs to step up and return to form, but I'm not second guessing that pick even if he's a bust.  What good is that?  I'm sure second guessing the FO will bring us a championship as well.  There's totally room for a critical eye here, but at what cost or gain?  The milk is on the floor...either clean it up or step over it and leave the mess...clearly there's no since in standing over it and saying, why did you spill the milk?

[doobiedoright]

And you have the year wrong....Mc kay picked cooper over jachson so but blame where it belongs! [banghead] [banghead]

[dalbuc]

And you have the year wrong....Mc kay picked cooper over jachson so but blame where it belongs! [banghead] [banghead]

Huh? Cooper was an R3 pick and Jackson was an R1 pick so no matter what no one picked Cooper over Steve Jax and as you look here: http://drafthistory.com/teams/buccaneers.html you see 2004 is when we took Clayton and Allen became GM in January of 2004 so that was his pick. You've been banging your head too much and lost track of time.