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If you don't believe that Gruden was the difference in us wininng the Super Bowl, just watch America's Game and see Lynch and Sapp tell you straight out...Oh, I forgot...Dalbuc knows more about them as coaches then they do...By the way, I would love to know the coaches who have won Super Bowls with no talent...or just win period...Occasionally you will have a surprise team pop up and have a winning season but then often it is just an average team with a weak schedule and a couple of lucky breaks(us two years ago) or team that had much more talent than we actualize realize (like the first 49ers Super Bowl team or the Patriots first Super Bowl wins)...
How many top 5 picks did any of those guys get in recent years? we got 2 since Gruden has been here.
Vermeil did not have talent...They had the best left tackle in football...the best running back in football(and one of the best ever)...Adding Holt made them the best receiving corps in football at the time...Warner won the league MVP and was a stud for not just that season but following seasons...The "Greatest Show on Turf" had no talent? Are you kidding me? Vermeil and Martz deserve a lot of credit for how well they coached up Warner...He had the talent but was a journeyman before he met them...But the thing is that he had the talent to begin with...Similar to Gannon and Gruden...Gannon was a journeyman and then Gruden helped him become a MVP...He had the talent, he just needed the coaching...Simms hardly falls into this category (at least in my opinion)
1. You can go back and forth, but to discount the fact that he won a Super Bowl is ridiculous. Sorry.2. Discount his playoff record because 3 of his wins came in one run that culminated in a SB championship? WHAT?!?!?3. To criticize him because he doesn't win with a poor team is ridiculous. Alot of what you said is just as ridiculious as what those at the other end of the spectrum have said, though, dal.
Quote from: UMguy1999 on May 10, 2007, 11:23:18 AMHow many top 5 picks did any of those guys get in recent years? we got 2 since Gruden has been here. How many have also gave up their first rounders for was it 3 years?? and a few second rounders??And the first year Gruden was here he was pounding the table for Brian Westbrook at that 3rd round pick....and guess what we got from.... "the Architect of the Bucs greatness" Richie McKayMarquise Walker (BTW his superbowl ring is on Ebay)And who gets the blame for that one??? Not McKay but Gruden
FRG is the most logical poster on this board. You guys just don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
Gruden's main problem is he doesn't get great talent. PR even had an article on the many draft busts he's had since he got here. I'm sure you can find it in archives. The draft picks after 1 or 2 are just not great.
Man, dude, how do you expect ANYBODY to read that post? I'm not the grammar police, but I can't even read it.