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keeponbucn

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: October 24, 2007, 03:16:33 PM

another "quality" rant by cummings [banghead]

These truly are desperate times at One Buc Place. The proof is in the string of seemingly desperate moves the Bucs have made in recent weeks.

The string began on the first day of the draft, when the Bucs used their first pick on Clemson defensive end Gaines Adams, one of three prospects who had admitted to experimenting with marijuana.

It continued a few picks later when the Bucs chose Syracuse defensive back Tanard Jackson, who was stabbed during a frat fight as a junior and suspended from the team as a senior for contract detrimental to the team.

Then, within minutes of completing the draft, the Bucs signed free-agent tight end Jerramy Stevens, who dropped off the radar of almost every other team in March when he was arrested on a DUI charge.

As if that wasn't enough, the Bucs then granted a tryout to Olympic gold medal sprinter Justin Gatlin, who is serving an eight-year ban from the track and field circuit for his involvement in a 2006 doping scandal.

Now, we're not against giving people second chances. And Adams, who is paying a high price for simply being honest, seems truly conciliatory regarding his lapse in judgment.

But it seems odd that during a period in which the NFL is clearly trying to erase the soiled image the public has of some of its players, the Bucs have added several players with legitimate character concerns.

That they've done all this in the wake of releasing linebacker Shelton Quarles, one of the league's model citizens, only adds to the curiosity.

The Bucs will deny it, of course, but unlike the Jacksonville Jaguars, who cut cornerback Ahmad Carroll just two days after he was arrested on weapon and drug charges, they seem to be overlooking character.

It seems that skill, ability and winning are what matter most to the Bucs, and that's understandable. This is, after all, a bottom-line business, and this regime is running out of bottom lines.

As best as anyone can tell, this team is in a must-win-now situation. Still, it would be nice if the Bucs won with a roster full of players they can truly trust to be there when they need them and be proud of.

http://www.tbo.com/sports/bucs/MGBA4C9TK1F.html

:)

CadillacPower24_2006

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#1 : May 14, 2007, 09:12:57 AM

another "quality" rant by cummings  [banghead]

for those of you who see this on the Insider board, sorry bout the double post, didn't realize it was there
-------------------------------

These truly are desperate times at One Buc Place. The proof is in the string of seemingly desperate moves the Bucs have made in recent weeks.

The string began on the first day of the draft, when the Bucs used their first pick on Clemson defensive end Gaines Adams, one of three prospects who had admitted to experimenting with marijuana.

It continued a few picks later when the Bucs chose Syracuse defensive back Tanard Jackson, who was stabbed during a frat fight as a junior and suspended from the team as a senior for contract detrimental to the team.

Then, within minutes of completing the draft, the Bucs signed free-agent tight end Jerramy Stevens, who dropped off the radar of almost every other team in March when he was arrested on a DUI charge.

As if that wasn't enough, the Bucs then granted a tryout to Olympic gold medal sprinter Justin Gatlin, who is serving an eight-year ban from the track and field circuit for his involvement in a 2006 doping scandal.

Now, we're not against giving people second chances. And Adams, who is paying a high price for simply being honest, seems truly conciliatory regarding his lapse in judgment.

But it seems odd that during a period in which the NFL is clearly trying to erase the soiled image the public has of some of its players, the Bucs have added several players with legitimate character concerns.

That they've done all this in the wake of releasing linebacker Shelton Quarles, one of the league's model citizens, only adds to the curiosity.

The Bucs will deny it, of course, but unlike the Jacksonville Jaguars, who cut cornerback Ahmad Carroll just two days after he was arrested on weapon and drug charges, they seem to be overlooking character.

It seems that skill, ability and winning are what matter most to the Bucs, and that's understandable. This is, after all, a bottom-line business, and this regime is running out of bottom lines.

As best as anyone can tell, this team is in a must-win-now situation. Still, it would be nice if the Bucs won with a roster full of players they can truly trust to be there when they need them and be proud of.

WARNING SHOT: A lot of Bucs fans and several of the team's quarterbacks are genuinely excited about the possibility of the team utilizing the shotgun formation next season.

One person who still doesn't seem sold on the formation, however, is the man who will ultimately pull the trigger on it - Coach Jon Gruden.

Gruden recently said the Bucs are continuing to work the shotgun into their offense, but he didn't sound at all like a man who has fully embraced the idea of using it on game day.

"We've had it in every year, and we're going to continue to work at it and see what happens," Gruden said. "We'll see how the roster finishes itself off and if Jeff Garcia has a shotgun comfort level.

"We'll see if any of our other quarterbacks do or not. We'll continue to work on it, but we're not going to make any more of a big deal about it than we have in years past."

CAMP BATTLES: An interesting battle to watch come training camp will be the one for the backup running back spot featuring veteran Michael Pittman and rookie Kenneth Darby.

Darby, a seventh-round pick out of Alabama, doesn't figure to challenge Cadillac Williams for playing time as the starter, but he has the tools to take snaps away from Pittman on third down.

"He's an outstanding receiver," Gruden said of Darby. "He's a very instinctive runner, and I think when the pads are put on you're going to find a guy who knows how to play.

"I believe he had some real problems with his dad's health last season, and there were some things off the field that really distracted him, but this is a good football player."

http://www.tbo.com/sports/bucs/MGBA4C9TK1F.html


dalbuc

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#2 : May 14, 2007, 09:21:04 AM

"But it seems odd that during a period in which the NFL is clearly trying to erase the soiled image the public has of some of its players, the Bucs have added several players with legitimate character concerns."

Fundamentally true,  and if the Bucs hadn't tossed Stevens into the mix this wouldn't look nearly as bad.  Jackson has 2 character issues - I know he was "breaking up" the fight the first time and that water bottle was for my jewelry. Adams is a reach for sure on that front. Gatlin is a 'roid-head at a time when the issue is smokin' hot.

Gatlin and Stevens are the really bonehead moves. You've got known character problems on guys that aren't good enough (see Moss, Randy) to risk having them about. <insert cost argument that implies that having a cheap character problem is ok>

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#3 : May 14, 2007, 10:39:12 AM

Gatlin is gone and if Stevens does anything wrong he will be gone.  Alot of reward and very little risk. JMO

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#4 : May 14, 2007, 11:51:03 AM

good golly -- gatlin was just a body for a 3 day camp. he makes it sound like we annointed him the starter despite breaking NFL league rules. aaahhh ... the media spin. gotta love it. (or hate it, depending on your DNA).

stevens -- i don't like this pick up. don't know the guy, but has been a repeat offender, inconsistent player (read: bad player), and was thrown out my holmgren. gruden being a holmgren disciple should have known to stay away from this guy. locker room cancers are bad news.

adams -- smoked pot. fessed up. test him weekly and keep a short leash. move on. my su**CENSORED**ion is that it was more than 3 people who admitted to pot use, but only CJ, GA, and AO were leaked because some team was maneuvering to make their draft stock fall. who here thinks that the other 250+ players drafted haven't smoked pot? my guess is that it borders on close to 75%. pot use on college campuses is at an all time "high" .. hehe.

tenard -- i've heard people's arguments to excuse his incidents (played hero one time, got stabbed, ouch). and was late to a meeting. doesn't sound like the types of offense that warrant a league suspension, but then again, i don't know any details to really comment. hope he turns out.

btw, for all the marcus thomas lovers -- imagine the negative pub if we had drafted him.

keeponbucn

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#5 : May 14, 2007, 11:52:28 AM

Gatlin and Stevens are the really bonehead moves. You've got known character problems on guys that aren't good enough (see Moss, Randy) to risk having them about. <insert cost argument that implies that having a cheap character problem is ok>

Gatlin is a non-issue, honestly Dal.

Stevens has the talent if he can get his head out of his bootie, who knows? It's such a low risk contract that I don't really mind it.

dalbuc

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#6 : May 14, 2007, 11:57:10 AM


Gatlin is a non-issue, honestly Dal.

Stevens has the talent if he can get his head out of his bootie, who knows? It's such a low risk contract that I don't really mind it.

Like I said, when you bring in low production, low character guys I've got more of an issue. Why even run the risk, why dance that close to the flame? I know we're not into Stevens for big money but he's a ball dropping machine and what happens when he's the #2 TE in mid September and he drives into another old folks home? Then you really get bit no matter what the finanical cost is. God forbid he wins the #1 job, which given our lack of competition might just happen.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

umguy1999

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#7 : May 14, 2007, 12:02:26 PM

I think the Shotgun comments are more important, it all depends on how a 37 year old QB likes it, even though we all know Simms and Grad's would like it and one of them has more of a chance at being our QB of the future than Garcia, who has never been able to do anything without top talent around him, like T.O. or Westbrook and good to great O-line.
As far as character I think its obvious Gruden does not care about those things.

ShotCaller

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#8 : May 14, 2007, 12:04:06 PM

has garcia never played in the gun before?? i thought reid ran that in phila, no?

dalbuc

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#9 : May 14, 2007, 12:08:17 PM

has garcia never played in the gun before?? i thought reid ran that in phila, no?

Just a quick thing, yes they do:

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/gameday/postGameArchive.jsp?id=59949
On second and 7, Garcia handed off to Westbrook from shotgun formation and Garcia gained 4 yards to the 30. On third and 3, Westbrook gained 10 yards for a first down to the 40.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Booker Reese

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#10 : May 14, 2007, 12:14:04 PM

Dalbuc, I said this on the insider board, but I'll say it again - if Cummings had written this only about Stevens, I think it would have been a fair take.

But by stretching this to include Gaines, Jackson, and - of all people Gatlin - I think he went awry.

Plus, when you look at the offseason as a whole, I think it's hard to support the "desperate to win" angle as well - whether you like the players they took or not, the Bucs simply did not go crazy in the free agent market. There are a lot of players the team could have swooped up if their only motive was to win today.

I mean Stevens might be the starter at TE - but he's not the difference between 4 wins and 10.

You do make a good point about the low level guys and character stuff - but that's exactly the opposite argument of Cummings.

Re: shotgun - I'm pretty sure that Garcia often played out of the gun for Mariucci.

dalbuc

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#11 : May 14, 2007, 12:18:16 PM

Dalbuc, I said this on the insider board, but I'll say it again - if Cummings had written this only about Stevens, I think it would have been a fair take.

But by stretching this to include Gaines, Jackson, and - of all people Gatlin - I think he went awry. 

I think Stevens is the lynch pin that makes this a story. The other guys might be minor enough but Stevens is such a bull in a china shop that he ties all the other issues togther.

BTW, you might also figure there's more to Jackson than we know. A guy who is a consensus R2 type player falling into 4...you think that is a character question?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Booker Reese

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#12 : May 14, 2007, 12:26:53 PM

I agree with you that Stevens was the key - but that's where he should have kept it. Do you think he would have written the same story if Okoye or CJ had been the pick instead of Gaines - even though their character issue was identical?

I definitely think there was a character concern for some teams with Jackson, and that probably cost him some dollars. But the more I hear, the less damaging it seems to be.

I still think his biggest problem was the probable position switch. As a corner he was already limited to Cover-2, and when some teams felt he wasn't capable of even that - well that's a recipe for a drop (not that disimilar to Zemaitis in fact). 

mjpwooo

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#13 : May 14, 2007, 12:56:52 PM

Dal, were you in favor of us drafting and keeping Sapp?  He had character issues coming out of Miami.

Feel Real Good

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#14 : May 14, 2007, 01:05:18 PM

BTW, you might also figure there's more to Jackson than we know. A guy who is a consensus R2 type player falling into 4...you think that is a character question?
I think Jackson was seen as a system player that if he went in the 2nd, there would only be a handful of teams that were interested in him.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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