Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: stop with the 3-4 business « previous next »
Page: 1 2

cvillebucfan

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 3111
Offline
#15 : May 22, 2007, 09:17:03 PM


The speed in the LB corps right now makes them a threat rushing and in coverage so out of a 3-4 we could be rushing one from an unexpected area and still be in our base coverage.

It just give more options, and it's not the end of a defense, just added wrinkles that are needed to stay competitive. I don't get why some people seem downright offended by this idea.


Well said Caradoc!



Baghead #2

ryan24

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 10609
Offline
#16 : May 22, 2007, 09:27:53 PM

*blink*  *blinkblink* 

We're going to run 3-4 with who as down linemen?  Adams, Hovan, Rice?   Hovan is a dead man.  Oh wait maybe we'll get bryant back and he'll be all world again.

Seeing as our safeties are so poor maybe we'll run some 3-5. I'm not saying all the time just like 40% or something.
]

No way the Bucs can run a consistent 3-4 with the size of their DL.I'm one who really believes one of the LB's used in place of one of the safeties in certain situations is a real possibility.

And that certainly may happen.  But what we're looking for is pressure, and it's going to come from creative use of personnell.  We already saw the 3-4  last year at about 15-20%.  It's going to increase.  Passing downs are roughly 30% of downs, and that's where you'd see it, plus in a small portion (maybe 10%) of "running" and maybe a bit more (15-20%) of "mixed" downs. 

We're not talking about a wholesale change.  The primary need for big DT's in a 3-4 is to handle the run, you don't need big DT's to deal with the pass.  So a 4-3 base which throws the occasional 3-4 curve is what we're likely looking at on those downs where we expect runs.  On the passing downs is where we'd likely see more 3-4 with the occasional 4-3 curve.  We have the LB corps to do it now, and the DT/DEs.  The coverage would likely be the same, just rushing a LB in from a different spot on different occasions, so you'd have the same-ole Tampa 2 with a LB instead of a DT rushing. 

The speed in the LB corps right now makes them a threat rushing and in coverage  so out of a 3-4 we could be rushing one from an unexpected area and still be in our base coverage.  We could rush 2, or we could keep all 4 in coverage to catch someone offguard.  Or Blitz a CB and let a LB handle the CB duties that play (wouldn't do it regularly, but it can be handled every now and then).  But you get the idea.  We just don't have the people to make a dominating 4-3 any more.  What we're lacking in talent from the front 4 will need to be accounted for by creativity.

It just give more options, and it's not the end of a defense, just added wrinkles that are needed to stay competitive.  I don't get why some people seem downright offended by this idea.


That's pretty much what I meant. I just don't think....and I don't think many on here do...that we would line up in a consistent 3-4. You may see 5 LB's disguising who's rushing and who's covering and from where to utilize the speed of the LB's both rushing and covering.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

rocko23

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3936
Offline
#17 : May 22, 2007, 09:33:59 PM

yes Caradoc very well put my man. I think by using the 3-4 early we just might catch some team off gard since there is not much film on us using the 3-4, maybe we can get the jump on some teams like are first 4 games. plus there are not many teams in the NFC the run the 3-4

CadillacPower24_2006

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#18 : May 22, 2007, 09:37:19 PM

if you were an insider, you'd be thinking differently.

rocko23

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3936
Offline
#19 : May 22, 2007, 09:45:20 PM

great reads and graphics on the 3-4   http://www.geocities.com/epark/raiders/football-101-3-4-defense.html 

http://football.calsci.com/DefensiveLine3.html

rocko23

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3936
Offline
#20 : May 22, 2007, 09:48:42 PM

What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

The offense does not know which of the 2 OLBs is going to rush the QB, as both of the OLBs are in a 2-point stance. This creates the following advantages:

It's harder for the offensive linemen to correctly determine their blocking assignments before the snap and execute
It puts more mental pressure on the QB. E.g. the Patriots did a masterful job in disguising their D against 2004 MVP Peyton Manning in the 2005 playoffs. Manning came unglued mentally, and his frustration seemed to affect his performance
With the growing number of defenses running the 3-4 D, it will be interesting to see whether its effectiveness decreases as offenses get used to facing it.


benir0

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 3134
Offline
#21 : May 22, 2007, 10:05:31 PM

take a look at the players we have brought in???

all of the players we have brought in have been "PROTOTYPE" tampa 2 guys

True, but I'm thinking that the 3-4 as implemented in Tampa will be used much like the handful of times we used it last year: in passing situations to bring pressure from interesting places.  On these 3rd/2nd and longs, there won't be the same size matchup issues as there would be if we were trying to run it on 1st and 10.

defntlydiffrnt

****
Starter

Posts : 579
Offline
#22 : May 22, 2007, 10:20:27 PM

Did you watch the regular season last year? ???

Was wondering the same thing myself.  Weird.

dbtb135

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#23 : May 23, 2007, 12:48:50 AM

take a look at the players we have brought in???

all of the players we have brought in have been "PROTOTYPE" tampa 2 guys

True, but I'm thinking that the 3-4 as implemented in Tampa will be used much like the handful of times we used it last year: in passing situations to bring pressure from interesting places.  On these 3rd/2nd and longs, there won't be the same size matchup issues as there would be if we were trying to run it on 1st and 10.

I think people are overdoing it. I can definitely see us doing it a little more than last year, but let's not go crazy here. We used it last year as an interesting way to bring pressure. Who's to say we have those problems with a healthy Sim and the additions of Carter and especially Gaines. Creative is good, but pure talent will do as well. Plus, are we expected to see 3rd and longs half the time as people are making it seem? That doesn't add up. If not, I think teams would be wise to take their chances on 2nd and long seeing guys like June or Black out there. Think about it, we're not a powerhouse as it is stopping the run, so we pull one of those ends out and insert a smaller LB and that just makes it that much more tempting to try for a 3rd and managable.

I don't know why people are making such a big deal out of the guys we brought as in 3-4 defenders either. Adams is athletic enough to play some OLB in the 3-4 but hasn't done much at Clemson. June's abilities to play LB in a 4-3 were question by guys who saw him get run by and run over, and hasn't played in a 3-4. Chuk is a reserve who had tough time playing for a pretty mundane Broncos DL. Peterson might not even make the roster. Carter is the only one who you can legitimately say could play in a true 3-4 because he's done it at Miami.

We'll see the 3-4 for sure, but I definitely don't think we'll se it as much as some people think.....

BucFan9720

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#24 : May 23, 2007, 04:14:21 AM

For those of you who dont know who would be the ends in the 3-4 if we stood up Gaines and Simeon.. Kevin Carter and Ellis Wyms would be.

buckit

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8730
Offline
#25 : May 23, 2007, 03:32:10 PM

Besides, we all know that the 46 generates a much better pass rush and run defense...I want to see the 46 in Tampa.


___________________________________________________

Dear Glazers,

Please sell the team to Eddie DeBartolo.

Thank you,
--the fans

watson

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5081
Offline
#26 : May 23, 2007, 04:13:52 PM

there have been a million threads lately about how our line up would look in the 3-4, or someone saying "i can't wait untill training camp or the season to see how much we use it." Not one time has monte said we will use it. He has never once said it, or even hinted at it for that matter. So please don't get your hopes up

we have always done and been succesfull with the 4-3 tampa 2

and we will keep using the 4-3 tampa 2 untill kiffin leaves which is hopefully not for a very long time.



bab,
You need to go back further than Monte when you say "we have always done" the 4-3.  Not true.  The Bucs originally used the 3-4 as their base defense and it was in use when they won their first division championship. 

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

buckit

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8730
Offline
#27 : May 27, 2007, 12:01:33 PM

With Flip in the box vs the Run and Sabby's speed to drop back into coverage, the 46 would work well in Tampa. 


___________________________________________________

Dear Glazers,

Please sell the team to Eddie DeBartolo.

Thank you,
--the fans
Page: 1 2
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: stop with the 3-4 business « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools