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mjs020294

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#30 : June 05, 2007, 02:12:34 PM

The biggest problem in most Florida cities, is the schools have been underfunded and teachers underpaid. 

Yet the standard of teachers in Florida ranks 2nd in the nation. 


mjs020294

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#31 : June 05, 2007, 02:24:52 PM

The Problem is who is doing the ranking and what standards are being used for those rankings. The system has been broken for quite some time. Colleges in many places today wouldn't even meet low high school standards of the 60's.

I am just not as filled with foolish pride as some I guess. What is considered College material today would never have been admitted in the 60's and early 70's. Oh well...

I agree with most of the above but without totally belittling the system and kids in school today.  Standards have obviously dropped and the number of kids going to college is through the roof.  Believe it or not that is pretty much the same the world over, well the major industrial countries anyway.   

When I went to school in the UK about 15% of the population went to university, and the bulk of them did professional type degrees like: law; medicine; dentistry; engineering etc.    Today the number of kids going to university in the UK is around 60% and many are doing useless degrees (I will not name them in case I offend someone).  Once you had to have an IQ of well above average to get a sniff of a university place but now you will get a place with well below average IQ if you work hard.

So yes standards are not what they were.



Of course as Americans we are always the best at everything. Just ask us!!


You are correct many countries are kicking our ass when it comes to education, especially the key subjects of science and math.  The US used to rank in the top five in the rankings for math education and now we are in the high teens.  Countries like India are far more reactionary to the needs of industry and they don’t fund degrees unless there is a real need in the work place; hence the abundance of Indian nurses and IT people in the US.


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#32 : June 05, 2007, 02:58:59 PM

The problems in education don't lie with the teachers.   While most certainly there are teachers that are poor but that really isn't the major problem.

The problem lies in understanding the concept of learning.  It is journey that takes longer for some and it can't be rushed.

Second understanding that real accomplishment is the road to real self esteem not BS!

Third social promotion doesn't help anyone but possibly the taxpayer.

The idea that Learning must be fun is a very flawed thought.

Until education recognizes that going to college is not for everyone there will always be problems.   

Suggest they read RICH DAD POOR DAD for a reality check!!


There are kids today in college that can barely read, and can't even solve basic math problems.


Runole

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#33 : June 05, 2007, 03:17:31 PM

Oh MJ who is belittling? I think an 8.08 is preposterous, ridiculous, and insulting to anyone that has made an A average in the past.

Understand, I am not belittling the girl. she is just getting what a corrupt system gave her. I blame the system not the students or the teachers.   There isn't a teacher today who hasn't had a grade changed by the administration after the year ended to move the kid to the next grade unless of course the teacher always gives passing grades. LOL ( I am sure they are the administrations FAVS and future "teacher of the year" candidates.

BucsBullsBolts

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#34 : June 05, 2007, 03:44:57 PM

Until education recognizes that going to college is not for everyone there will always be problems.
Isn't that what IB, Honors and AP programs are set up for? To, basically, separate the ones who ARE trying to go to college from the ones who college isn't for?

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#35 : June 05, 2007, 03:58:22 PM

I believe most if not ALL colleges take grades and come up with their own averages for admission standards. SO having an 8.08 is nice, but chances are whatever colleges she applies to are going to look at grades and classes and formulate their own GPA.


As for the smartest person in the world, he is right here on PR!  Just ask Runole, he'll tell you how smart he is!

mjs020294

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#36 : June 05, 2007, 04:34:53 PM

Until education recognizes that going to college is not for everyone there will always be problems.
Isn't that what IB, Honors and AP programs are set up for? To, basically, separate the ones who ARE trying to go to college from the ones who college isn't for?

Education has gone the same way in the UK everyone thinks a degree is the answer.  We don’t train enough tradesmen, although a master electrician or plumber can earn $120k in Tampa.  The average graduate will never get a sniff of $120k, and we have hundreds with MBAs that earn under $60k where I work.

The system should be more like Germanys with vocational colleges and universities.  Kids either do a degree or go to a college and learn a trade.  Unless your degree gets you into a profession at the end of the studying it is ridiculous IMO.  No way on earth is my kid going to college without a clear idea of what he will be using his degree for down the road. 


krazybuc

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#37 : June 05, 2007, 04:38:36 PM

Until education recognizes that going to college is not for everyone there will always be problems.
Isn't that what IB, Honors and AP programs are set up for? To, basically, separate the ones who ARE trying to go to college from the ones who college isn't for?

Education has gone the same way in the UK everyone thinks a degree is the answer.  We don’t train enough tradesmen, although a master electrician or plumber can earn $120k in Tampa.  The average graduate will never get a sniff of $120k, and we have hundreds with MBAs that earn under $60k where I work.

The system should be more like Germanys with vocational colleges and universities.  Kids either do a degree or go to a college and learn a trade.  Unless your degree gets you into a profession at the end of the studying it is ridiculous IMO.  No way on earth is my kid going to college without a clear idea of what he will be using his degree for down the road. 


smartest thing i've heard a parent say (assuming youre a parent)  in about 10 years.

i've got 3 friends with bachelors degrees struggling like crazy to find a job, working part time junk jobs in the meantime.

my g/f just graduated UF and is nannying because it pays more money than a job in her field.

i dropped outta college after year one and am gettin ready to open my own business..

that degree is more like a receipt. you pay your ass off for 4 years and at the end you get a receipt.

John Galt?

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#38 : June 05, 2007, 05:48:52 PM

The "Donald" said it best,"the main thing a college degree proves, is that you can start a long term project and without strict supervision, finish it."


acacius

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#39 : June 05, 2007, 06:05:26 PM

Of course as Americans we are always the best at everything.   Just ask us!!

Now, where did anyone say that?  I know *I* certainly didn't.

Quote
I am just not as filled with foolish pride as some I guess.  What is considered College material today would never have been admitted in the 60's and early 70's.   Oh well...

The irony here is that I actually agree with quite a bit of what you've said in this thread.  Certainly there's much to be concerned about with the overall state of education in this country.  I just don't think it's fair to take things away from the schools that ARE doing good things.  Believe me, they DO exist.  Yes, there are kids at college today who would never have cut it 40 years ago, but there are also those who would.  If you really do doubt this, you're just not looking very hard.  Period.

It's really quite ironic that it was this student with the silly adjusted GPA who got your feathers up.  With an adjusted GPA like that, there's little question that she was taking a course load that gave her at LEAST as good of an education as one could have received 40 years ago.  Again, that's NOT to say that there aren't a disturbing number of kids who just slide by.  I'm simply saying that there are also those who don't.

acacius

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#40 : June 05, 2007, 06:07:21 PM

The "Donald" said it best,"the main thing a college degree proves, is that you can start a long term project and without strict supervision, finish it."

That depends heavily on the major.  Just like there are plenty of high schools that don't provide much of an education, there are plenty of majors out there that are barely worth the paper they're printed on.  On the other hand, you also have fields such as the hard sciences where if you have the degree, you *earned* it.

John Galt?

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#41 : June 05, 2007, 06:30:22 PM

Trump's point was that to an employer, any degree (4 year) has some value because it demonstrates the dedication of the student.  Technical degree's that are mandatory for the field are a different issue. Trump's opinion (for what that's worth) is a person with no college may or may not be better than a degreed person, but a degreed person is better than someone with some college, who quit.


mjs020294

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#42 : June 05, 2007, 06:56:02 PM

No way on earth is my kid going to college without a clear idea of what he will be using his degree for down the road.


smartest thing i've heard a parent say (assuming youre a parent) in about 10 years.

Thankfully he is fairly sensible and he wants to be a pathologist, not my choice but he has been on that wagon for a few years.  He is even open to the idea of joining the Air Force ROTC, and getting his education paid for before signing up for a few year.


acacius

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#43 : June 05, 2007, 08:51:46 PM

Trump's point was that to an employer, any degree (4 year) has some value because it demonstrates the dedication of the student.  Technical degree's that are mandatory for the field are a different issue. Trump's opinion (for what that's worth) is a person with no college may or may not be better than a degreed person, but a degreed person is better than someone with some college, who quit.

I see.  All in all, I agree with that.

mjs020294

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#44 : June 05, 2007, 09:06:30 PM

I would happily flush my degree down the toilet and be a master plumber/electrician instead.

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