I still think Gruden is the right coach for Tampa...

[gaines3]

Here is why i think and feel this way. The most important thing we have to realize is that over these four years we have had barely the cap to sign our draft picks, and the main reason behind this is Rich McKay. He dug us in a HUGE hole! We are just NOW getting ready to get out of it this next spring, and be ready to see some major changes. I think after this year we will all be impressed with what gets changed. We will have plenty of money to make a couple of big splashes in free agency, and most likely have some very good draft picks. However I am a not throwing the towell in yet. There are things we have to look at it, and be happy. We a very young offense, and I still think Gradkowski is our man, for one major reason; he doesn't allow game changing turnovers. He protects the ball, and I think he will start to progess as the season goes on. I want to praise Bruce Allen for what he has been able to do for us by freeing up all this money, and I feel that the best years ARE coming in Tampa. Regardless of how this year turns out, I have this gut feeling that we will all see what kind of team Gruden has invisioned for our franchise, and finally be able to give it to him next year, but I still see this team having some big wins this year!

[bradentonian]

We were in a big enough hole to sign Deese, Steussie, and Garner

[shall555]

We were in a big enough hole to sign Deese, Steussie, and Garner

None of those guys were premiere free agents and they weren't paid like one. They were tire patches to fix the holes that our salary cap hell and lack of draft picks created. GruAllen were also attempting one last gasp at a Super Bowl ring before the window completely shut, which it did in 2004. At best, those free agents were paid slightly above average on their market value, with the exception of Steussie and Stinchcomb who were flat out overpaid.

[bradentonian]

We were in a big enough hole to sign Deese, Steussie, and Garner

None of those guys were premiere free agents and they weren't paid like one. They were tire patches to fix the holes that our salary cap hell and lack of draft picks created. GruAllen were also attempting one last gasp at a Super Bowl ring before the window completely shut, which it did in 2004. At best, those free agents were paid slightly above average on their market value, with the exception of Steussie and Stinchcomb who were flat out overpaid.

I'm just saying we found the money to sign several free agents.  Since they didn't work out, we had to cut them and eat some salary cap hits.  That made any previous problems much worse.

[bucDsystem]

i would tend to agree John Gruden is a nice head coach
bruce allen is a great money manager
john gruden - bruce allen without tim ruskell and the other personnel advisers and scouts which were present in the old regime = what we have now

a bunch of talked up receivers who never see the field for whatever reason
an aging defense more in need of disciplined talent than filler bodies
a qb carousel that seemingly hasn't stopped spinning yet

while i think of Gruden as a great coach and am happy to see him here into his eventual retirment
those who lean on his oakland years as evidence of his building ability... two words
Al Davis

[bradentonian]

January 10, 2004 Named Bruce Allen general manager
March 5, 2004 Signed free agent tackle Derrick Deese (6 year, $15MM, $2.5MM SB)
March 5, 2004 Signed free agent offensive lineman Matt Stinchcomb (2 year, $5MM)
March 10, 2004 Signed free agent running back Charlie Garner (6 year, $20MM, $4MM SB)
March 12, 2004 Released safety John Lynch
March 17, 2004 Signed free agent offensive lineman Todd Steussie (6 year, $20MM, $4MM SB)
April 29, 2004 Signed free agent linebacker Ian Gold (5 year, $30MM, $1.4MM SB)

[Itchalot]

#1 The signing bonus is what matters, and none of those bonuses were out of this world.  #2 free agency was the only way we could get any new players, so you can argue we signed the wrong free agents, but not that we signed free agents.   The assumption by you and others is that we should have gone some alternate route to get better.  There was no alternate route. 

You should know these things, Bradenton.  This doesn't mean that Allen and/or Gruden didn't make mistakes. They did.  But I don't know what you expected to happen.  Did you expect somebody to come in here and make one fantabulous move after another? 

The problem with every team in the NFL besides the Patriots is that they aren't the Patriots.   Everybody says look at the Patriots we should be doing that. But if you look at all the other teams they are struggling every year just like the Bucs.   

The idea that after we have put together a nice young offense of rookies, 2nd and 3rd year guys who need to play together and grow together but you want to PULL  THE RUG OUT and get rid of the coach.  Brilliant!

[bradentonian]

#1 The signing bonus is what matters, and none of those bonuses were out of this world. #2 free agency was the only way we could get any new players, so you can argue we signed the wrong free agents, but not that we signed free agents. The assumption by you and others is that we should have gone some alternate route to get better. There was no alternate route.

You should know these things, Bradenton. This doesn't mean that Allen and/or Gruden didn't make mistakes. They did. But I don't know what you expected to happen. Did you expect somebody to come in here and make one fantabulous move after another?

The problem with every team in the NFL besides the Patriots is that they aren't the Patriots. Everybody says look at the Patriots we should be doing that. But if you look at all the other teams they are struggling every year just like the Bucs.

The idea that after we have put together a nice young offense of rookies, 2nd and 3rd year guys who need to play together and grow together but you want to PULL THE RUG OUT and get rid of the coach. Brilliant!

I'm just refuting the argument that the cap was so screwed up by McKay that we were unable to sign any FAs.  McKay made some poor decisions, and so did Allen.  But to blame the whole thing on McKay would be erroneous.

[TBYFLBuc]

#1 The signing bonus is what matters, and none of those bonuses were out of this world. #2 free agency was the only way we could get any new players, so you can argue we signed the wrong free agents, but not that we signed free agents. The assumption by you and others is that we should have gone some alternate route to get better. There was no alternate route.

You should know these things, Bradenton. This doesn't mean that Allen and/or Gruden didn't make mistakes. They did. But I don't know what you expected to happen. Did you expect somebody to come in here and make one fantabulous move after another?

The problem with every team in the NFL besides the Patriots is that they aren't the Patriots. Everybody says look at the Patriots we should be doing that. But if you look at all the other teams they are struggling every year just like the Bucs.

The idea that after we have put together a nice young offense of rookies, 2nd and 3rd year guys who need to play together and grow together but you want to PULL THE RUG OUT and get rid of the coach. Brilliant!

I'm just refuting the argument that the cap was so screwed up by McKay that we were unable to sign any FAs.  McKay made some poor decisions, and so did Allen.  But to blame the whole thing on McKay would be erroneous.

Have to agree, Allen and Gruden have to take their share of the responsibility for 3 of the last 4 seasons being losing ones. How long are people going to blame McKay?Its been 3 years.

[dbucfan]

It was a combined effort to screw up the cap - and if anyone cares to review the contract history up to the SB it is pretty clear that the future was mortgaged for that run.  Mortgage is being paid, it stinks but bills come due.  And bradentonian - those guys were low cost bandages compared with Simms, Brooks, Brad, Keyshawn ...

[Itchalot]

How long are we going to blame McKay?  I don't know. How fast are you going to give up on an offense that has three rookies, and three second year starters , four if you count Mahan?

GRUDEN AND ALLEN HAVE DONE WHAT YOU ASKED!  You said rebuild from the ground up, don't just reload with over the hill free agents. THEY DID THAT!  Now our offense is filled with youngsters JUST LIKE YOU DEMANDED!  Now you got what you wanted and so what do you want to do?  Fire the coach!

Even back then I would say "OK you Gruden to start from the ground up. If he does are you going to give him the time to develop that team?"  Your response was "Um yeah but well see this and that blah blah...."  And now the time comes for you to give this offense the time to develop and the truth comes out GRUDEN NEVER HAD A CHANCE IN YOUR EYES!  You want him to bring rookies in here and WIN RIGHT AWAY!  Hypocrites, losers, idiots:  Those are names I won't call people because I have too much class. I just hope my CAPITAL LETTERS can do the talking.

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

#1 The signing bonus is what matters, and none of those bonuses were out of this world. #2 free agency was the only way we could get any new players, so you can argue we signed the wrong free agents, but not that we signed free agents. The assumption by you and others is that we should have gone some alternate route to get better. There was no alternate route.

You should know these things, Bradenton. This doesn't mean that Allen and/or Gruden didn't make mistakes. They did. But I don't know what you expected to happen. Did you expect somebody to come in here and make one fantabulous move after another?

The problem with every team in the NFL besides the Patriots is that they aren't the Patriots. Everybody says look at the Patriots we should be doing that. But if you look at all the other teams they are struggling every year just like the Bucs.

The idea that after we have put together a nice young offense of rookies, 2nd and 3rd year guys who need to play together and grow together but you want to PULL THE RUG OUT and get rid of the coach. Brilliant!

I'm just refuting the argument that the cap was so screwed up by McKay that we were unable to sign any FAs. McKay made some poor decisions, and so did Allen. But to blame the whole thing on McKay would be erroneous.

Have to agree, Allen and Gruden have to take their share of the responsibility for 3 of the last 4 seasons being losing ones. How long are people going to blame McKay?Its been 3 years.

Only problem is that Allen has only been here 3 years. Gruden and Allen collectively botched the Garner, Steussie deals-- those were mistakes and cost us about 6mil in dead cap but then again we had no picks to sign youngsters and no monies to go after anything more than mid tier FA's. But who knew Garner would blow out his good knee??? Deese was injured and never made his way back. Stinkbomb is still starting in this league and didn't cost us as he played out his two year deal although he never produced and sat alot. Other than those mistakes Grudern and Allen have done a pretty godd job at getting young talent and signing some mid tier FA's like Hovan whgo have worked out well.

Now for McKay-- while he was GM leading up to 2002 and the trade for Gruden he pissed away 9 #1 and #2 picks. Those are where most of the stars in the league are born. Not to mention in his entire stint here he drafted just 2 great offesive players in Alstoot and Dunn-- other than that he whiffed except Walker has held on but never bee great or worth the 2- #1's that were dished for him. We all well know the contract fiasco's he did. And lets not forget the cornerstones of thebgreat defense he likes to take credit for were Wyche and his scouts draft gems.

Plain and simple the problems for this team came from years of mortgaging to get the SB. Both FO's ahve their faults but the fact that Gruden and Allen were without 9 top draft picks and a strained cap have alot to do with the Bucs misfortunes. 2004 should have been the start of a rebuild but without draft picks whats a team to do to answer the that remained. Kind of hard. Especially when you make bad choices that set you back another year in ability to sign decent FA's although we did get Hovan which was pretty damn lucky. So yeah Gruden and Allen share some blame but McKays lack of offensive drafts and the fact that 9 top draft picks pissed away really hurts the reload phase and you have to take chances on mid tier potentially washedup former decent players. Some have worked out the majority hasn't.

The on thing that gets me is why have traded for guys like Jolley and never use them. Why do we get guys like Winborn and leave them inactive. Why have Stallworth inactive week in and week out. Why have Z inactive. If these guys ever have any hope for the future they have to play in the sytem to get there.

Excuse the typos you get the point i hope

[Boid Fink]

Now Gruden said that he promises the Bucs will face worse weather conditions than what they seen in the Swamp last week.  He even went so far as to hint that he loves the cold, and he might have to adjust his players to it.  How did he imply this?  He flat out said he didn't know if maybe he would fly the Bucs to Pittsburgh on a Tuesday and have them practice in the cold to get them ready.  I almost jumped up in joy when I heard him say that, it is something I have been saying for a long, long time now.  The Bucs, in order to have a better second half, HAVE to get used to nasty weather. 

Some reporters were asking Gruden about wether the Bucs wideouts were having the dropsies because of the their "cold hands", and I had to think hell yeah it did.  That and the hurricane they were trying to catch in.  Gruden said it wasn't that cold.  It was cold enough to have people wearing big jackets, and covering in blankets wearing their woolies and gloves.  The Bucs need to be ready for cold weather.  I think they should turn their practice facility into the Letterman studio (i.e. COLD), just as a added factor.  Whatever it takes, because the snow in Cleveland is going to bethere.  The snow in Chicago will be there (as well as the wind), and Pittsburgh will be blanketed in snow.

I was just glad Gruden even mentioned having the guys fly out early to even further ready themselves.  It tells me that he gets it.

[BUCFAN4LIFE]

He should do it for West Coast trips as well- they always play flat out there except the one time they got there a week early.

i think we do need a o-cordinator to work with gruden... i love him being here and don't want to see him leave but he seems in over his head lately. he  needs to get back to the basics..

everyone always says "his offense is complicated" well maybe he needs to simplify things.

just like when i design, sometimes to much is bad. sometimes my best work is more of the simpler stuff.