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olafberserker

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#30 : June 05, 2007, 11:38:04 PM

Again TS, you're talking about guys with talent showcasing it.  Crawford was an all star before Maddon arrived and Upton was a number 1 pick.  Shields is a bulldog adn seeing as though he and Reyes are the only pitchers on the staff that appear to be able to actually pitch and not just throw, I'm not throwing a bunch of accolades Maddon's way for Shields rise.



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#31 : June 05, 2007, 11:40:21 PM

That's a two way road then Olaf, if you don't credit him for helping Shields he sure as hell didn't ruin Camp or Fossum.

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#32 : June 05, 2007, 11:42:24 PM

Again TS, you're talking about guys with talent showcasing it. Crawford was an all star before Maddon arrived and Upton was a number 1 pick. Shields is a bulldog adn seeing as though he and Reyes are the only pitchers on the staff that appear to be able to actually pitch and not just throw, I'm not throwing a bunch of accolades Maddon's way for Shields rise.
True, I'll give you that one, I guess I just like being on the glass half full side in thinking our time and money with Maddon wasn't completely wasted.

olafberserker

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#33 : June 05, 2007, 11:44:10 PM

That's a two way road then Olaf, if you don't credit him for helping Shields he sure as hell didn't ruin Camp or Fossum.


I didn't say he ruined anybody.  Camp sucks on his own and Fossum is average at best, plus coming off shoulder surgery.  It's the way he handles the pitchers that sucks.  He also is supposed to be a teacher and a strong fundamentals guy and this team hasn't improved fundamentally at all.

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#34 : June 05, 2007, 11:46:07 PM

Again TS, you're talking about guys with talent showcasing it. Crawford was an all star before Maddon arrived and Upton was a number 1 pick. Shields is a bulldog adn seeing as though he and Reyes are the only pitchers on the staff that appear to be able to actually pitch and not just throw, I'm not throwing a bunch of accolades Maddon's way for Shields rise.
True, I'll give you that one, I guess I just like being on the glass half full side in thinking our time and money with Maddon wasn't completely wasted.


You are completely entitled to that little peace of positive thought.   ;D

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#35 : June 05, 2007, 11:47:25 PM

Maddon just doesn't manage the game well IMO.

Not going to argue who he developed and who he didn't, as there is a staff of guys and natural progression involved.



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#36 : June 05, 2007, 11:47:51 PM

I agree with Ray on both points.

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#37 : June 05, 2007, 11:50:41 PM

Maddon just doesn't manage the game well IMO.

Not going to argue who he developed and who he didn't, as there is a staff of guys and natural progression involved.
100% agreed with

olafberserker

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#38 : June 05, 2007, 11:52:07 PM

I agree with Ray on both points.

Then are you just trying to debate me for the fun of it?



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#39 : June 05, 2007, 11:53:26 PM

No I'm debating you on tonight's game, not overall. I've said he's a poor manager, but that tonight wasn't his fault given the circumstances.

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#40 : June 05, 2007, 11:54:22 PM

He's game management was a problem tonight as it has been on several occasions.



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#41 : June 05, 2007, 11:55:07 PM

I don't agree with that, on tonight's basis only. We'll just have to agree to disagree and move on to tomorrow's game I suppose.

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#42 : June 06, 2007, 12:02:17 AM

No disrespect, but I don't see how you can say that game management didn't play a part in tonight's debacle.  Of course teh guys put on the mound should be able to hold a five run league, but it doesn't excuse his crappy decision making.



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#43 : June 06, 2007, 12:05:40 AM

Aren't you contradicting yourself, you say it's his fault, yet the roster isn't at all in his control outside of a small say.

Other than using Al three straight days, what else did he do wrong tonight?

Not keep Sonny in? Okay I can buy that, but it's his debut, 7 innings is great at this point, he could've went 8 definitely.

Not keeping Glover in? So use arguably your second best reliever for two innings in a blowout...

So lemme see, people are hating on Maddon for using Reyes in non-save predictments, yet were okay with Glover being used and being unavailable for potentially the series?

Interesting.

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#44 : June 06, 2007, 12:13:38 AM

Using Reyes in back to back nonsave situations is a big deal.  That's a major point to my argument.  I have no probalem with Sonnawhatever coming out.  As for Glover, Maddon has two choices...1)throw him in the eigth and then the ninth since he was so dominate in the eighth or 2) throw one of the other clowns in the eighth and have your best available option for the night available for the ninth or earlier if necessary.  Basically he chose to use his best option in the eight and go into the ninth without a net.  He fell!  And yes you can use one of your set men for two innings.  Reyes should be available tomorrow and you go from there.  It's not uncommon for that to occur.  And I'm "hatin" for using your only reliable relieve aka your closer in nonsave situations on back to back nights  No contradictions at all.
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