When belief colides with reason..

DefenseWins

Fair enough

[keeponbucn]

when ego is mixed with stupidity - DefenseWins

[mjs020294]

when ego is mixed with stupidity - DefenseWins

[spartan]

It is one thing to engage in discussion it is another to go off on a tirade which is what happened. Plus, if somebody doesn't immediately agree with your OPINION it doesn't automatically make them an idiot and a moron. Wether Gruden has had ample time to build his organization by now or not is a legitimate debate as Prefer and Dalbuc demonstated this morning, charging in like a bull in a china shop will more often than not only result in circuling of the wagons. It is also not the way to start meaningful debate.

If it makes you feel any better quite a number of people on this board have introduced themselves in a similar manner  but have 'mellowed' and are now considered valuable members of the board, so fear not, there is hope 

So for all of those non-thinkers out there that wish to intimidate or dispell critical thought, you should check yourself. Highlighted in those conversations is not fan loyalty, but ignorance and lack of education.

We do not have to agree, but we should respect each other, and our opinions!

Let's see here, anyone who disagrees with your opinion is a non-thinker, ignorant and lacks education. In the very next breath, we should respect each others' opinions. I guess what you mean is that us ignorant, uneducated non-thinkers should respect your opinion. Sounds like a load of crap to me.

[DefenseWins]

Illuminator, What I'm saying is that I dislike Gruden, and want  him gone. I address those who cannot discuss, as non-thinkers, as you can see. Not those who disagree. In the same breathe I do call for niceness.. I see your point. My bad.

 I joined a discussion board with the desire to see many opinions and insight about the team.
I have been a subscriber for 3 years, and engage in the discussion to exchange ideas, positive and critical. Why else pay for insider information than to discuss and think about football way too much?

In this situation, when I said I'd fire his ass today, everybody jumped all over me(many times unfairly), for obviously being discouraged about the state of our team. I was baffled of all the angles taken, most aggressive and unfriendly. I may have lost patience here and there, but think mostly that I was under attack for my suggestions. Not the other way around.

Truly not looking to make enemies here, while at the same time will not compromise my views, unless better ones come along. 
 

 

[rocko23]

can we just get a dam win [banghead] [banghead] [banghead]

[DefenseWins]

No kidding.

[BTownBucFan]

Its new topic after new topic about the same damn thing.  We get the point, people are upset with Gruden ... we get it.   There are some on the boards [not saying you DW] that didn't come in until after the poor start and those only seem to be the topics they include themselves in, offering nothing else to the board.

People here have different opinions and to think one is fact over another by saying things like "reason" is implying your beliefs are fact and is like saying if you don't believe my way, your an idiot.   Most of the long term members here aren't upset with the bashing going on, that comes and goes with anytime there is a loss, it's the way some of the posters are doing it by taking personal shots, name calling, and the flooding of the bashing in new topic after new topic and then have nothing else to say about any other subject. 

[keeponbucn]

Its new topic after new topic about the same damn thing. We get the point, people are upset with Gruden ... we get it. There are some on the boards [not saying you DW] that didn't come in until after the poor start and those only seem to be the topics they include themselves in, offering nothing else to the board.

People here have different opinions and to think one is fact over another by saying things like "reason" is implying your beliefs are fact and is like saying if you don't believe my way, your an idiot. Most of the long term members here aren't upset with the bashing going on, that comes and goes with anytime there is a loss, it's the way some of the posters are doing it by taking personal shots, name calling, and the flooding of the bashing in new topic after new topic and then have nothing else to say about any other subject.

well played, well thought out, well executed.

[DefenseWins]

BTown, I gotcha. This subject of the team's performance problems is only 1 of the many topics that I have participated in here. This is not my favorite topic, which under normal circumstances would go without saying.

I have been critical of Gruden for some time now. This is nothing new for me. Right now, there are a whole lotta' fans that have serious reason to be concerned about the long-term success of this organization under Gruden's helm. Like it or not, it will be heavily discussed until we begin to show improvement that sticks. I understand, if you strongly support Gruden, these topics are frustrating.  In reply to all of those critics, you can say "scoreboard". Gruden is here. For critical fans, all we can do is wait and hope for change.

About the reason thing, I understand that it can sound rude if I am declaring my self on the side of reason alone, which I do not. Several bloggers were quite unique in the way that they would support their "reasoning" for having Gruden here. There is something to be said about the people that would respond in saying, "I have faith in Chucky, Hail Chucky", and those others that would resort to petty character attacks, like me not being a fan, or having no football knowledge, etc. After awhile, it got a bit old to keep up with those remarks. If there is one thing that I have learned through this, it would be that once I have said what I believe, I will be more cautious than to be suckered into ridiculous arguments.

I'm over it.

[BTownBucFan]

BTown, I gotcha. This subject of the team's performance problems is only 1 of the many topics that I have participated in here. This is not my favorite topic, which under normal circumstances would go without saying.

I have been critical of Gruden for some time now. This is nothing new for me. Right now, there are a whole lotta' fans that have serious reason to be concerned about the long-term success of this organization under Gruden's helm. Like it or not, it will be heavily discussed until we begin to show improvement that sticks. I understand, if you strongly support Gruden, these topics are frustrating.  In reply to all of those critics, you can say "scoreboard". Gruden is here. For critical fans, all we can do is wait and hope for change.

About the reason thing, I understand that it can sound rude if I am declaring my self on the side of reason alone, which I do not. Several bloggers were quite unique in the way that they would support their "reasoning" for having Gruden here. There is something to be said about the people that would respond in saying, "I have faith in Chucky, Hail Chucky", and those others that would resort to petty character attacks, like me not being a fan, or having no football knowledge, etc. After awhile, it got a bit old to keep up with those remarks. If there is one thing that I have learned through this, it would be that once I have said what I believe, I will be more cautious than to be suckered into ridiculous arguments.

nice reply and very well said.  Looks like we'll agree to disagree about Gruden, but I have enjoyed some of your other posts in other subjects and that's why I didn't include you in that group of "newcomers" and look forward to you being here for a long time.

[BucsPirate]

DefenseWins why don't you go take a look at the rank of Gruden's offenses in his years at Philladelphia and Oakland. Come back to me with those stats, and the rosters on those teams compared to the rosters of teams that were right next to them in rankings, and then tell me Gruden does not know how to call plays. I don't think too many of us will argue that this offense has not been up to expectations in the last three years, but unlike you most of us continue to have confidence that Gruden will turn it around. Lets see what happens by the end of next year, I have a feeling by then you will be forced to look for something new to complain about.

[DefenseWins]

That would be great.

You are right, we do not have the same roster. Coaches are always adapting, some better than others.
I've never said that Gruden has not had success. I'd like to see a lot more of it consistently.