Alarming Gruden stat

[The White Tiger]

JC I used Gruden's total coaching losses (included Oakland) record, not SINCE 2002.

You clearly stated SINCE 2002.

Yes and I was wrong - and in my follow up post (number 147) I not only acknowledged that I showed that your numbers were way off too you said 70% of losses were because we threw the ball. When in actuality that number is 60% and is much closer to the balance you infered was needed (I think many would search for a 60/40 split).

My follow up also stated that in order to give your argument teeth - it would be good to see what Jon Grudens percentage of wins were directly attributable to passing only downs.

That would not only be intersting to know, it would keep others from infering that you were deliberately skewing the numbers to prove a point.

[Uncle Stan]

Bottom line-stats do what you want them to do.

It helps to use the right stats to begin with.

[The White Tiger]

Whats the quote? Oh yeah..

Figures lie and liars figure....

JC, you really should do the research on the win side. You could then make a fairer assesment of Grudens winning total HERE.

Catch you in another thread dbuc

[olafberserker]

Whats the quote? Oh yeah..

Figures lie and liars figure....

JC, you really should do the research on the win side. You could then make a fairer assesment of Grudens winning total HERE.

Catch you in another thread dbuc

Or at least keep him busy for awhile.  After that go chart all his play calls back to Jr. High School.

[The White Tiger]

Now olaf...

back to JC510: (sounds of adding machine....keys smacking....cranking down on handle...carry the 5 ...and suddenly a  shout erupts "...NOW I'VE GOT 'EM...")

[ryan24]

I realize this is difficult for some to grasp but so much of statistical analysis in football is cause and effect that the stats can be completely misused.

For instance do teams lose because they pass too much or are they passing too much because they are losing? Are the teams throwing the ball a lot doing so because that's what the defense is giving them?

Conversely are teams winning because they run the ball more or are they running the ball more because they are winning? Would passing more contribute to a loss or are teams just trying to work the clock?

What are the stats of the other teams in similar situations? Are they passing as often as the Bucs supposedly did last season? What were the reasons?

Without answers to those questions it's pretty difficult to come to a conclusion....as "alarming" as the original poster is over this heinous crime.

[The White Tiger]

Yeah CP24 - if  you post statistics you will be challenged - because as Uncle Stan posted - you can skew the stats when you take them out of any context.

But if you can take the stats and put them in the context of the reality that the Bucs were living in I think you get the real picture.

Not one where your trying to sell a philosophy. When I smell a spin I'll see ya' and raise ya'...

[dbucfan]

LOL BB - ya think there was an agenda being pushed?  Heck why work so hard.  The franchise has made many errors that got them to 4-12 - bad FA signings, draft picks that flourished then sucked, coaches whose units are less than average after years of efforts - trying to blame is all on any one issue like playcalling - and any one person - like Gruden - well it is easier than looking at the full picture.

I don't like where the bucs have been - who does - 4-12 and watching HS level play was bs.  But - folks knew or should have known a bill was coming due for the SB - and the first couple of payments have been made - I am looking for improvement - and most of all a qb to lead this franchise into the future - (and a DT).  But to think it all would have or could have happened over the past couple of years - well let me be charitable and say it would have been extraordinary.  Kinda like finding a Brady in the 6th round.  And by the way - they needed a Brady and a Sapp - both in their prime.  The odds - about the same as the lotto in my humble opinion - and the buccs have already won that once when they got Sapp and Brooks in the same year. 

[The White Tiger]

^^^Nice