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JavaBuc

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#15 : June 23, 2007, 10:03:35 PM

I don't think there's any chance Gruden will be fired after this season.   Even if we go 0-16, I think he stays.

olafberserker

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#16 : June 23, 2007, 10:05:45 PM

I don't think there's any chance Gruden will be fired after this season. Even if we go 0-16, I think he stays.


Watch out.  Here come the lynch mob. (no pun intended) :D

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#17 : June 23, 2007, 10:22:00 PM

To the Glazers......Gruden is just like a 1st round draft pick.   He's won two division titles and a Superbowl.  He had one really bad season.  Do you ditch him for maybe two to three more years of instability and chaos?  Or do you let he and Allen do what they did in Oakland which eventually led to three division championships and two conference title games and a Superbowl.   The Glazers aren't stupid.  They know how winning teams are built.   

JavaBuc

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#18 : June 23, 2007, 10:25:36 PM

Gruden is just like a 1st round draft pick.

I agree with your post.   But actually, he's like 2 first round and 2 second round picks.   

MarleyMon81

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#19 : June 23, 2007, 10:28:25 PM

He had one really bad season.

5-11 in 2004 wasn't much better than last year's 4-12 though.


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#20 : June 23, 2007, 10:31:13 PM

To the Glazers......Gruden is just like a 1st round draft pick. He's won two division titles and a Superbowl. He had one really bad season. Do you ditch him for maybe two to three more years of instability and chaos? Or do you let he and Allen do what they did in Oakland which eventually led to three division championships and two conference title games and a Superbowl. The Glazers aren't stupid. They know how winning teams are built.


Good post.

Boid Fink

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#21 : June 23, 2007, 10:46:17 PM

I think BA has proven his worth as a very good GM.



MarleyMon81

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#22 : June 23, 2007, 10:51:56 PM

I think BA has proven his worth as a very good GM.

He certainly helped to clean up a major cap deficit mess that was left behind.  The thing I admired most about Allen's work with the Bucs is that he didn't go out and blow the now cap surplus he helped to create just because we finally had room.  He spent smart and didn't blow huge signing bonuses and guaranteed monies on a good but not great FA class.  $3M was the largest SB to Garcia and Petitgout.  He didn't allow the money to burn a hole in the team's pocket thus allowing the Bucs to be potentially more active in future seasons with better FA classes while the teams that spent like wildfire are cramped by the deals they agreed to in 2007.

He knows how to put a roster together.  While some just don't want to see the good this man has done, it is definately there for all to see. 

Has he made mistakes...sure has (Deese, Garner, and Steussie.) 

Show me a GM that has NEVER made a bad transaction in their career, and I'll show you an internet sports message board poster!


Fresh

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#23 : June 23, 2007, 11:52:38 PM

The one thing Bruce Allen could have done was to franchise Warren Sapp!


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MiltonMack21

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#24 : June 24, 2007, 12:22:16 AM

He stays if the offense he has wasted 3 drafts on goes up to the top 10, and he shows he has learned how to make in game adjustments.


JavaBuc

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#25 : June 24, 2007, 01:01:23 AM

He stays if the offense he has wasted 3 drafts on goes up to the top 10, and he shows he has learned how to make in game adjustments.

Since the Bucs went all defense this year in the draft, I guess you are talking about these 3 drafts:

2004
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 15 Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
3 79 Marquis Cooper OLB Washington
4 111 Will Allen FS Ohio State
5 146 Jeb Terry G North Carolina 

2005
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 5 Carnell Williams RB Auburn
2 36 Barrett Ruud MLB Nebraska
3 71 Alex Smith TE Stanford
3 91 Chris Colmer T North Carolina State
4 107 Dan Buenning G Wisconsin

5 141 Donte Nicholson SS Oklahoma
5 155 Larry Brackins WR Pearl River JC
 
2006
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 23 Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
2 59 Jeremy Trueblood T Boston College
3 90 Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame

4 122 Alan Zemaitis CB Penn State
5 156 Julian Jenkins DE Stanford


So there was a 1 and a 5 in 2004 :  a 1, 3, 3, 4, 5 in 2005 : and a 1, 2 and 3 in 2006

The players you consider to be "wastes" include

Davin Joseph
Jeremy Trueblood
Maurice Stovall
Cadillac Williams
Alex Smith
Dan Buenning
Michael Clayton
Jeb Terry

Colmer and Brackins were complete busts.   Clayton is a bust if he doesn't turn it around this year.   But the rest form the nucleus of this team's future.   I don't think that can be considered a "waste".    Colmer was the biggest waste followed closely by defensive player Marquis Cooper.   But you didn't mention the wasted picks on defense so I guess Cooper doesn't count.

A waste would be to have 2 first round picks in your first draft thanks to Sam Wyche and take Regan Upshaw and Marcus Jones with those picks when you already have a solid DL.

I suppose you think all the defensive players picked this year were a waste too?   LOL!

SamoaJoeBucFan

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#26 : June 24, 2007, 01:05:14 AM

If the team improves and we win 8 or 9 games, then he stays.

If we make the playoffs, then he gets an extension.

If we lose 9 or more games and the offense continues to sputter, he goes.

MiltonMack21

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#27 : June 24, 2007, 01:11:40 AM

He stays if the offense he has wasted 3 drafts on goes up to the top 10, and he shows he has learned how to make in game adjustments.

Since the Bucs went all defense this year in the draft, I guess you are talking about these 3 drafts:

2004
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 15 Michael Clayton WR Louisiana State
3 79 Marquis Cooper OLB Washington
4 111 Will Allen FS Ohio State
5 146 Jeb Terry G North Carolina 

2005
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 5 Carnell Williams RB Auburn
2 36 Barrett Ruud MLB Nebraska
3 71 Alex Smith TE Stanford
3 91 Chris Colmer T North Carolina State
4 107 Dan Buenning G Wisconsin

5 141 Donte Nicholson SS Oklahoma
5 155 Larry Brackins WR Pearl River JC
 
2006
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 23 Davin Joseph G Oklahoma
2 59 Jeremy Trueblood T Boston College
3 90 Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame

4 122 Alan Zemaitis CB Penn State
5 156 Julian Jenkins DE Stanford


So there was a 1 and a 5 in 2004 :  a 1, 3, 3, 4, 5 in 2005 : and a 1, 2 and 3 in 2006

The players you consider to be "wastes" include

Davin Joseph
Jeremy Trueblood
Maurice Stovall
Cadillac Williams
Alex Smith
Dan Buenning
Michael Clayton
Jeb Terry

Colmer and Brackins were complete busts.   Clayton is a bust if he doesn't turn it around this year.   But the rest form the nucleus of this team's future.   I don't think that can be considered a "waste".    Colmer was the biggest waste followed closely by defensive player Marquis Cooper.   But you didn't mention the wasted picks on defense so I guess Cooper doesn't count.

A waste would be to have 2 first round picks in your first draft thanks to Sam Wyche and take Regan Upshaw and Marcus Jones with those picks when you already have a solid DL.

I suppose you think all the defensive players picked this year were a waste too?   LOL!
Java if those guys you have listed play like their draft status shows they should then they won't be wastes... and I would rather not talk about the Jones/Upshaw Picks. Those 2 still haunt me.


MarleyMon81

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#28 : June 24, 2007, 01:15:32 AM

The one thing Bruce Allen could have done was to franchise Warren Sapp!

Not possible since we didn't have the Franchise tag available in the 2004 off season.  They got it back in the 2005 off season after Chidi's deal that was signed while the Franchise tag was on him in 1998 finally expired.  The Franchise tag runs the entire length of the signed deal even if the player is no longer on the team.

Sapp couldn't have been Franchised even if Allen wanted to in 2004.


The White Tiger

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#29 : June 24, 2007, 01:28:05 AM

Java - corpse won't listen to any reason. He's dead-set ;D against giving Gruden ANY credit. He denies ALL positive contributions Gruden has made because he says Gruden hurt his feelings in 2005 Redskin loss. Even though EVERYONE picked us last in the division in the 2005 pre-season.

Gruden is just like a 1st round draft pick.

I agree with your post. But actually, he's like 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

BTW Java^^^Excellent post^^^

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