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MiltonMack21

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#30 : June 24, 2007, 01:31:56 AM

Java - corpse won't listen to any reason. He's dead-set against giving Gruden ANY credit. He denies ALL positive contributions Gruden has made because he says Gruden hurt his feeling in 2005 Redskin loss. Even though EVERYONE picked us last in the division in the pre-season.

Gruden is just like a 1st round draft pick.

I agree with your post. But actually, he's like 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

BTW Java^^^Excellent post^^^
Seriously... your man crush on Gruden is old. Until he proves to me he knows how to do what is best for this franchise I will have my doubts. If I am wrong this year then I will admit it. But if I am right then I will expect the same from you.


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#31 : June 24, 2007, 01:41:31 AM

Who Java, or me?

If you mean me -I always own up when I'm wrong - front and center. Fortunately that doesn't happen often.
See, I'm not jaded by any personal feelings, pro or con, for a 45 year old coach that's already won the superbowl. I know that he can chase talent, develop it AND change tactics in game. He just needs the talent to make adjustments with.

He'll be here long enough to see it through to success. Afterall, despite whatever is predicted here - all the owners want is improvement - and they decide what that is.

The one thing Bruce Allen could have done was to franchise Warren Sapp!

Not possible since we didn't have the Franchise tag available in the 2004 off season.  They got it back in the 2005 off season after Chidi's deal that was signed while the Franchise tag was on him in 1998 finally expired.  The Franchise tag runs the entire length of the signed deal even if the player is no longer on the team.

Sapp couldn't have been Franchised even if Allen wanted to in 2004.

Nice recall Marley. IIRC - Even if we could have franchised Sapp. I don't think we had the cap space to get it done.

See that's what Gruden AND Allen have been working on.

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MiltonMack21

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#32 : June 24, 2007, 01:44:45 AM

Who Java, or me?

If you mean me -I always own up when I'm wrong - front and center. Fortunately that doesn't happen often.
See, I'm not jaded by any personal feelings, pro or con, for a 45 year old coach that's already won the superbowl. I know that he can chase talent, develop it AND change tactics in game. He just needs the talent to make adjustments with.

He'll be here long enough to see it through to success. Afterall, despite whatever is predicted here - all the owners want is improvement - and they decide what that is.

The one thing Bruce Allen could have done was to franchise Warren Sapp!

Not possible since we didn't have the Franchise tag available in the 2004 off season.  They got it back in the 2005 off season after Chidi's deal that was signed while the Franchise tag was on him in 1998 finally expired.  The Franchise tag runs the entire length of the signed deal even if the player is no longer on the team.

Sapp couldn't have been Franchised even if Allen wanted to in 2004.

Nice recall Marley. IIRC - Even if we could have franchised Sapp. I don't think we had the cap space to get it done.

See that's what Gruden AND Allen have been working on.
It was directed at you.. and one thing you and I agree on is the owners will make the choice.


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#33 : June 24, 2007, 01:45:44 AM

Gruden will be an NFL Deity when all is said and done with his career.

Book that.


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#34 : June 24, 2007, 01:48:18 AM

The fact that you think I have something personal against Gruden baffles me.. I think the guy is a good guy and has good intentions, I just don't think he is capable of building a young team or is any good at in game adjustments and I don't want that further affecting the franchise.


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#35 : June 24, 2007, 01:53:07 AM

Gruden will be just fine.  He is still very young, has had a lot brought onto his belt, and he will be a superb coach when it is all said and done.  The man is a fanatic about ballin', and fickle fans will not determine his result with this team, or another, in the end of his reign.  Gruden is a helluva coach.

I am not pleased with the results two of the three, but nor do I forget what he has done.  I think it takes more talent to drag greatness out of old geezers, then it does young squires.  Gruden haters, give it a rest.

He will right the ship.  And when he does, I suspect the majority of the "fans" to be vanishing from this premise.  Of course not.  The band-wagon fan is always on the right shoulder, whispering "I knew it's" with a wink.

Of course, the homer fan is always perched on my left shoulder, waiting for the time I can gloat like a certain Buc fan versus a Raider fan pic...


That Pic is a reminder.


MiltonMack21

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#36 : June 24, 2007, 01:55:22 AM

Boid.. I hope you are right and I am wrong.. because if I am right we are screwed for a VERY long time.


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#37 : June 24, 2007, 02:02:44 AM

Gruden will be an NFL Deity when all is said and done with his career.

Book that.

No man crush - I think the guy is one of the best coaches in the NFL. I think he has grown through the adversity in TB and I think he wants to prove something more.

corpse - you can't play both sides of the fence. Either you want a good coach like a Gruden, or you want a new coach. I don't know if he is a good guy or not. I know he coached his butt off in 2005 with a team that wasn't any different than the one in 2006. In game adjustments? What in game adjustments has he failed to make? Any in particular?

All solid points Boid - nice post.

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MiltonMack21

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#38 : June 24, 2007, 02:17:00 AM

Gruden will be an NFL Deity when all is said and done with his career.

Book that.

No man crush - I think the guy is one of the best coaches in the NFL. I think he has grown through the adversity in TB and I think he wants to prove something more.

corpse - you can't play both sides of the fence. Either you want a good coach like a Gruden, or you want a new coach. I don't know if he is a good guy or not. I know he coached his butt off in 2005 with a team that wasn't any different than the one in 2006. In game adjustments? What in game adjustments has he failed to make? Any in particular?

All solid points Boid - nice post.
A Great coach as you put it does not have 5-11 seasons, followed by 4-12 season. He is subpar as a head coach at this point. Yes he won a superbowl but so did freaking Barry Switzer. So we can put that to rest. Since you must ask.. why throw 50 times in the swirling wind? Time will prove me right about him not being in the upperhalf of NFL coaches.


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#39 : June 24, 2007, 02:20:45 AM

Boid.. I hope you are right and I am wrong.. because if I am right we are screwed for a VERY long time.
I am not sure if being screwed means not winning a Super Bowl in the next five years, or a decade, or if it means watching .500, .600 ball for the next twenty.  It is a game people, a passionate one, but Gruden isn't any dumber or smarter than the next Graet Coach.  He knows footabll, and the X's and O's.  We have all obviously seen that.  WHat are we, in New York or something?  Patience is thin in Tampa, I guess.  I would prefer to see Gruden try to perfect whatever madness is going on in his mind, than to wait until the next guy comes in and tries to reclamate the "project".  A new coach means a whole new set of ideas, and a whole new set of personel to run the ideas.  Gruden is young, and has learned.  NO matter how much this-or-that'ing you drum up, you cannot tell me that Gruden knows less about ball than we all do.  Leave him be, he is starting his quest to become more of a college coach.  Which in essence means working with younger, less-serious guys (more than likely).  He has mangled the league with his work before, I am sure he will do it again.  You don't win in the NFL by being a "hee-haw-honkey-tonk of U.S.A.".  He has won divisions with good, and not so good teams.  HE has brought the ONLY Lombardi to Tampa.  He has made bad decisions, of course.  I would like to see him grow, and coach the BUcs for many many more years.  He isn;t intentionally screwing Tampa out of Superbowls, and once the pieces of some Van Gogh puzzle accrue, Gruden will be a contender again, and the fickleness will cease.  But I will remember you like Yoda remembers the Dark Side.  


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#40 : June 24, 2007, 02:26:26 AM

Gruden will be an NFL Deity when all is said and done with his career.

Book that.

No man crush - I think the guy is one of the best coaches in the NFL. I think he has grown through the adversity in TB and I think he wants to prove something more.

corpse - you can't play both sides of the fence. Either you want a good coach like a Gruden, or you want a new coach. I don't know if he is a good guy or not. I know he coached his butt off in 2005 with a team that wasn't any different than the one in 2006. In game adjustments? What in game adjustments has he failed to make? Any in particular?

All solid points Boid - nice post.
A Great coach as you put it does not have 5-11 seasons, followed by 4-12 season. He is subpar as a head coach at this point. Yes he won a superbowl but so did freaking Barry Switzer. So we can put that to rest. Since you must ask.. why throw 50 times in the swirling wind? Time will prove me right about him not being in the upperhalf of NFL coaches.
Was at the Giants game, and to be honest, I think he was trying to win a game by playing the odds.  He was saying the Giants dee was creeped up so far on the line of scrimmage, that he was going to HAVE to beat them by throwing the ball and hoping skill sets, some luck, and splash plays make a difference.  He has won a Lomabardi, div. Champsionships, he has a mind for balling.  Your mind has been rotted by the hate that ebbs from the TBBBB "mods".  WE all have opinions, but can you imagine giving the ball to Pittman or Caddy 40-50 times that game?  THey would have had less than 60 yards of total offense.

And FWIW, Caddy played like crap.  I know the wind was tough, my lips got chapped like a MF'er, but Carnell wasn;t playing like anything that resembles a first round pick.  Not even a 7th round pick.  He flat out stunk, and Clayton and Galloway dropped some passes that should have been hauled in.  Of course, the wind had a lot to do with them dropping well placed balls...it made their gloved fingertips cold...right?


MiltonMack21

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#41 : June 24, 2007, 02:31:22 AM

Gruden will be an NFL Deity when all is said and done with his career.

Book that.

No man crush - I think the guy is one of the best coaches in the NFL. I think he has grown through the adversity in TB and I think he wants to prove something more.

corpse - you can't play both sides of the fence. Either you want a good coach like a Gruden, or you want a new coach. I don't know if he is a good guy or not. I know he coached his butt off in 2005 with a team that wasn't any different than the one in 2006. In game adjustments? What in game adjustments has he failed to make? Any in particular?

All solid points Boid - nice post.
A Great coach as you put it does not have 5-11 seasons, followed by 4-12 season. He is subpar as a head coach at this point. Yes he won a superbowl but so did freaking Barry Switzer. So we can put that to rest. Since you must ask.. why throw 50 times in the swirling wind? Time will prove me right about him not being in the upperhalf of NFL coaches.
Was at the Giants game, and to be honest, I think he was trying to win a game by playing the odds.  He was saying the Giants dee was creeped up so far on the line of scrimmage, that he was going to HAVE to beat them by throwing the ball and hoping skill sets, some luck, and splash plays make a difference.  He has won a Lomabardi, div. Champsionships, he has a mind for balling.  Your mind has been rotted by the hate that ebbs from the TBBBB "mods".  WE all have opinions, but can you imagine giving the ball to Pittman or Caddy 40-50 times that game?  THey would have had less than 60 yards of total offense.

And FWIW, Caddy played like crap.  I know the wind was tough, my lips got chapped like a MF'er, but Carnell wasn;t playing like anything that resembles a first round pick.  Not even a 7th round pick.  He flat out stunk, and Clayton and Galloway dropped some passes that should have been hauled in.  Of course, the wind had a lot to do with them dropping well placed balls...it made their gloved fingertips cold...right?
Well Boid I believe you are dead wrong about Gruden... and I believe numbers will prove me right in the end. He will leave the NFL with a losing record and be a head coach at an SEC or ACC school


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#42 : June 24, 2007, 02:33:07 AM

^^^Maybe so.  But being a football fan in general lends me to believe YOU are dead wrong, and he will wind up making you change your screen name so you can be a "firm" supporter once again.

TBBBB sucks rocks.


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#43 : June 24, 2007, 02:36:13 AM

Gruden will be a contender again, and the fickleness will cease.  But I will remember you like Yoda remembers the Dark Side.

Now That^^^ is the definitive smack of the evening.

corpsey - I fear you have awoken a sleeping giant....I told you that negativity would wear thin here.

As I've said to you before - Begone troll!

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MiltonMack21

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#44 : June 24, 2007, 02:40:18 AM

Nahhh I don't run and hide. I don't get into football discussions for "smack" effect. Buckeye... I kinda wonder if you really are a Bucs fan.. or if you are a post 97 Bucs fan? I will also tell you, my "negativity" is not that at all, but legitimate concerns about the coach of my team.

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