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ufojoe

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#15 : June 25, 2007, 12:30:42 PM

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/meyer_1546___article.html/attorneys_case.html

Excerpt...

Meyer may already be a citizen, attorneys say
GRETCHEN LOSI

APPLE VALLEY — Zoila Meyer, the former Adelanto City Council woman and mother of four who now faces deportation, may be a citizen after all.

Since the Daily Press reported the story Thursday, her story has gained national attention through television and radio media.

Now attorneys are beginning to step up, seeking her as a client.

The Daily Press spoke to a few Friday about her situation, and many said the same thing — if her parents were naturalized before she turned 18, she’s already an American.

“If this is indeed the case, then everything is thrown out the window,” said attorney Phil Abramowitz, who has offices throughout Southern California and Nevada.

The White Tiger

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#16 : June 25, 2007, 01:11:21 PM

She broke the law. She got arrested. This is what's supposed to happen. Now, it seems she has extenuating circumstances and I hope she is allowed to stay. The fact that she is from Cuba is probably the exact reason she will be allowed to, hardly the reason she'll be gone as you claim. You're pissed that she's getting screwed when no one knows if she's going to get deported or not. Save the anger for when something bad actually happens. No need to jump the gun.

Quote
She resigned after 10 weeks in office in Adelanto, a town of about 23,000

June 18, Meyer said, immigration officials showed up at her home and told her to appear at their San Bernardino office.

Her husband drove her to the office on Tuesday, "and they handcuffed me," Meyer said. "They put me in jail and they frisked me and processed me."

I can garauntee you I'd upset if this happened to me. If you were forced to resign your position and later some agents showed up at your home telling you to report ANYWHERE - you wouldn't be scared/angry too? Getting arrested, fingerprinted and processed - then put in jail - all while thinking you were leagal would first make you frightened.

And then for the government to step up and say "sorry, my bad...?" I'm thinking PISSED is where I start.

Why am I upset about it? I have a quote I try to remember - I heard it reference to when the Nazi's came to power in Germany - everyone wanted to know how this could happen in a society full of honest hard working German folks. I'm paraphrasing and I'm not sure who said it but it applies: "All that is necessarry for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing.."

I'm a pretty conservative thinker, so this is not some left-leaning or libertarian rant. Wrong is wrong. It is the governments job to make sure they have a case before stepping in and halting/abridging a citizens rights. The burden of proof falls on the government to do their homework - not someone that thinks or may BE a citizen. It is incumbant on the government to find out if a person is guilty PRIOR to making an arrest.

Am I for allowing illegal aliens free access into this country to rob us of our inheretence (social security) and bog down our health industry (indigent care), attack our citizens with violent gangs and clog our streets with un-insured vehicles crashing into law abiding citizens - all so the make their lives better - in Mexico? NO! I'll stand beside anyone on the border to keep these folks out.

But this issue is different and we should expect our government to do a better job going after alleged criminals. She was so high profile it should have been easy...

ufojoe - it has not escaped my notice - I can't believe we found a topic we agree on (at least on principle)!

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ufojoe

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#17 : June 25, 2007, 01:19:11 PM

ufojoe - it has not escaped my notice - I can't believe we found a topic we agree on (at least on principle)!

Yeah, but I can't agree with this statement of yours..

It is incumbant on the government to find out if a person is guilty PRIOR to making an arrest.

If that was the case, nobody would ever be arrested.

In this case, the government should know the laws and have more background on the case before
making an arrest. If her parents were naturalized before she was 18, she might be a citizen and
this case may be moot. So, did they check into that at all before arresting her?

leeroybuc93

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#18 : June 25, 2007, 01:20:08 PM

She broke the law. She got arrested. This is what's supposed to happen. Now, it seems she has extenuating circumstances and I hope she is allowed to stay. The fact that she is from Cuba is probably the exact reason she will be allowed to, hardly the reason she'll be gone as you claim. You're pissed that she's getting screwed when no one knows if she's going to get deported or not. Save the anger for when something bad actually happens. No need to jump the gun.

Quote
She resigned after 10 weeks in office in Adelanto, a town of about 23,000

June 18, Meyer said, immigration officials showed up at her home and told her to appear at their San Bernardino office.

Her husband drove her to the office on Tuesday, "and they handcuffed me," Meyer said. "They put me in jail and they frisked me and processed me."

I can garauntee you I'd upset if this happened to me. If you were forced to resign your position and later some agents showed up at your home telling you to report ANYWHERE - you wouldn't be scared/angry too? Getting arrested, fingerprinted and processed - then put in jail - all while thinking you were leagal would first make you frightened.

And then for the government to step up and say "sorry, my bad...?" I'm thinking PISSED is where I start.

Why am I upset about it? I have a quote I try to remember - I heard it reference to when the Nazi's came to power in Germany - everyone wanted to know how this could happen in a society full of honest hard working German folks. I'm paraphrasing and I'm not sure who said it but it applies: "All that is necessarry for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing.."

I'm a pretty conservative thinker, so this is not some left-leaning or libertarian rant. Wrong is wrong. It is the governments job to make sure they have a case before stepping in and halting/abridging a citizens rights. The burden of proof falls on the government to do their homework - not someone that thinks or may BE a citizen. It is incumbant on the government to find out if a person is guilty PRIOR to making an arrest.

Am I for allowing illegal aliens free access into this country to rob us of our inheretence (social security) and bog down our health industry (indigent care), attack our citizens with violent gangs and clog our streets with un-insured vehicles crashing into law abiding citizens - all so the make their lives better - in Mexico? NO! I'll stand beside anyone on the border to keep these folks out.

But this issue is different and we should expect our government to do a better job going after alleged criminals. She was so high profile it should have been easy...

ufojoe - it has not escaped my notice - I can't believe we found a topic we agree on (at least on principle)!

Ummmm... they have a case.  She voted illegally.  She is not a citizen.  That's all there is to it.  She deserved to get arrested and go to jail, as she broke the law.  Now that the preliminary steps have taken place for a prosecution, they can review the facts and decide whether or not to go through with it.  If she knew she wasn't a citizen then she screwed up.  If she thought she was, she still screwed up, but that would make it unlikely that she will get deported.

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#19 : June 25, 2007, 01:40:25 PM

After reading through the thread it would appear since she has been voting since she was 18 the problems lie with the bureaucracy that is supposed to monitor such things.  Generally this falls right in line with the overall ineptitude of government agencies.

Oh and I most certainly feel that both the Republican and Democratic parties do not support the overwhelming majority of real US citizens on this issue.  As others have stated these illegal immigrants are breaking the law by being here and need to be deported.

This case IMHO has little to do with that issue and probably is being presented to show how mistakes can be made.  Bad Propaganda IMO.

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#20 : June 25, 2007, 02:09:14 PM

Exactly right Runole - no comparison between this case and the illegal alien case - it is a stretch.

ufojoe - I used proving guilt PRIOR to arrest - I should have the government should have vetted the evidence PRIOR to the arrest.

I am NOT for illegal immigration.

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#21 : June 25, 2007, 04:13:31 PM

My comments are based purely on this thread and I confess that I have not looked into this issue so I may be wrong in parts.

I will begin by passing comment on the legal aspect of this. I do not believe that the act of her parents becoming naturalized automatically grants her the same. I base this on the fact that my wife came to this country when she was 6. When her parents naturalized, she naturalized at the same time and was issued seperate naturalization papers. I think she was about 8 at the time. If the act of naturalization was automatic when her parents did so why was she issued a seperate naturalization certificate? If it is automatic then she is an idiot as she has the paperwork somewhere.

The other thing is that there is a world of difference between making an honest mistake and abusing the system. This appears to be a mistake and as such I personally think that deportation would be excessive to put it mildly. I do however think that some folks are making a big meal out of this for obvious reasons. Those reasons are in my opinion short sighted. They are intended to generate sympathy. Same with the article here from ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3264260

This one has started the call for health care for illegal immigrants, although one of the clauses in the immigration bill is that they will not be entitled to it. Starting this crusade is IMO going to have the opposite affect it is intended and will result in the bill getting kicked out. Anybody with half a brain knows that as soon as all the illegal immigrants are 'legalized' the campaign for 'affordable wages', 'entitlements', 'rights' etc and so forth will begin. Fill yer boots is what I say. I don't agree with the Bill and I think this tact will back fire.

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#22 : June 25, 2007, 04:57:48 PM

I kinda have this gut check that says: look at re-unification of east/west Germany after the fall of communism. It folded quite nicely into the planned European Union. I think it served as a road map for mergers and acquisitions - not of companies but of strategic geographic regions.

The EU struggled at first but after a few years of monetary stabilization and tax payers absorbing the costs of the health care for millions of skilled but unemployed workers, the economies took off due to the growth of the newly developed market. I see the global reliance on cheap goods out of a unified China.

Here's what I think is motivating the Republicans with this unification bill. While we are benefitting from all this unification with lower costs of goods, we are losing market dominance. That makes CEO's, corporate boards and Presidents, VERY displeased. What makes them even more concerned is that our American companies will not be able to compete in a few years in these new markets because our cost model is too high. Because in this country we attain universal health care by forcing large companies to offer health care to their employees. That cost is now to the point that it is a significant portion (20%-30% of my companies budget is dedicated to this) of where these companies spend their earnings each year. Foreign governments we are competing against don't have this problem - so not only is our foreign competition getting cheaper workers and tearing down trade bariers to develop new markets, they also have a lower operating cost - because the foreign governments we are competing against pay the health care costs. Taxes are born by the individuals to finance this. In order to compete we seem to be making a deal with El Diablo to lower these costs by importing workers. What happens when those workers aren't needed due to the contraction of our economy? Would you go home or fight for health care and social security benefits?

I also see that it fits quite nicely into vote mining for the Democrats because they have no other way to rapidly grow their base. They get to use New Deal spending levels to attract/sway a whole new generation of untapped voters. Yes, they know if you Rob Peter to pay Paul, you are assured of Pauls vote - and there are a TON of MOTORISTS coming across the boarder. Under the MOTOR VOTER bill they passed, and the state laws of certain states (yep the two with big populations and BIG elctoral vote totals - California and Florida - allow aliens to get liscences), these folks could easily get voting registration cards.

Both parties are compromising the security of our border to, either compete globally or they are mining votes and this motivation sickens me.

This achieves something that is rarely seen in politics. A BIG payoff for both parties, one party makes constituents to be able to compete. The other party gets to make consituents. That is why they continue to push for something NONE of US want - it's good for them and they are deluding themselves into thinking what's good for them will eventually be good for us.  Even if it does make us The Estados Unidos of Canada....

Of course this is all JMO - based on what I see globally and what I know of markets and companies and politics.

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#23 : June 26, 2007, 05:11:23 AM

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/meyer_1529___article.html/citizenship_office.html

Zoila Meyer hopes media attention brings happy ending

Zoila Meyer's legal battle is developing regional attention. She's been contacted by many Los Angeles area Television and radio news programs, which she hopes will avoid deportation.

GRETCHEN LOSI
APPLE VALLEY — Within a day of the Daily Press running the story about wife and mother of four, Zoila Meyer and her possible deportation — the wheels began turning.

She has been contacted by several media outlets who have taken an interest in her story including Channel 2 News, KFI AM 640’s Bill Handel, and John and Ken.

“If it raises awareness to families that are out there and haven’t naturalized their children yet, then this attention is a good thing,” Meyer said.

Government agencies are now also taking notice.

Meyer spoke with an official from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

She now hopes that if she obtains citizenship through a hearing before July 18, when she is scheduled to turn herself into government officials, she may be able to stay.

“I’m not hopeful yet that things will change. The day I’m there and they tell me I won’t be deported is when I’ll have hope,” she said.
While Meyer has a green card, she is not a U.S. citizen, making it illegal for her to cast a vote in an election — which she has done since the age of 18.

Meyer also ran for — and won — a seat for Adelanto City Council in 2004 where she served for 10 weeks before resigning after a family member raised questions regarding her legal status.

On Tuesday, her husband drove her to the San Bernardino County office of Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs Service office where she was arrested and now faces deportation.

She has lived in the U.S. since the age of 1 and maintains she was not aware her parents never completed her naturalization papers. Her parents, and her five siblings, have all obtained their citizenship in the U.S. she said.

“I truly thought I was a citizen, all my life. However I got here, I got here. I’m just trying to make it right,” she said.

ufojoe

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#24 : June 28, 2007, 01:12:53 AM

I posted this in the wrong thread. I moved it.

The White Tiger

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#25 : June 28, 2007, 01:33:38 AM

This is begining to sound like WWE (a publicly traded company - does not like to look bad - bad stock prices eminate from looking like they would allow something like this) spin.

Steroids/hormones and other PED's were being abused by this man. They do affect rage - they also impact long term feelings of well being - long-term exposure contributes to depression.

Just some things to consider...

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