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olafberserker

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#165 : July 08, 2007, 03:07:53 PM

I didnt' particularly think that he showed steady progress.  He made some big pass plays (some late in games), but a couple of those wins were after playing poorly for 3 quarters.  Don't get me wrong, I thought he may be turning the corner, but after his play early last year and this inability to get his mechanics back it doesn't appear that he did.  In 2005, he was staked to a 5-1 record and had a great defense.  Last year he was the man and he looked lost again. 

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#166 : July 08, 2007, 06:34:46 PM

I think teams figured out the 2005 protection schemes the Bucs were using for Simms. In 2005 his weaknesses were attacked every week and he was 0-3. Max Pro was used constantly - but when you have 8 men in the box you can't run - if you don't make good decisions/reads, or are not especially accurate, you can't beat the opposing team with the pass.

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dbucfan

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#167 : July 08, 2007, 08:59:22 PM

And I think he just faced better defenses the year after the buccs went to the playoffs- and he and the Oline didn't step up their level of play as they needed to BB.  Just my .02

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#168 : July 08, 2007, 10:36:54 PM

And I think he just faced better defenses the year after the buccs went to the playoffs- and he and the Oline didn't step up their level of play as they needed to BB. Just my .02

An aspect I overlooked. Schedule definitely was tougher. As I said before - good to have you back!

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RedAlert

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#169 : July 09, 2007, 02:29:01 PM

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..keep the attack balanced with some well timed completions and the occasional big play.

Even quoting you correctly I still stand by my statement.  That is a misleading description of Gruden's offense.  Even further implying that Gruden does not demand much from the QB position.  I say that is far from the truth.

There is nothing simple about Gruden's offense nor of what Gruden asks of all of his QB's to do.  Gruden not only wants a QB that can run his offense but do the extra things as well (audible, using their feet, improvising, etc).

An occasional big play and some well timed completions is not how I would describe Jon's offense.

Using your feet, audibiling, improvising, etc is going above and beyond what an offensive system calls for.  Gruden not only wants his QB's to play within his offensive system but to go outside of it as well.  That is why your description of Jon's offense seems very strange to me.

That is why many people will disagree heavily with you on your description of Gruden's offense.



They can disagree all they want. The attributes you describe as what Gruden wants from his QB are pretty much universal, so that's not much of an argument.

I base my opinion, and I'm not preaching gospel, on facts. The facts being that the best offense Gruden ever had, both record and scoring wise, was his 2000 Raider team. That team's RB stable averaged 4.5 yard per carry (read: strong run game), and that's not including Gannon's scrambles. Conversely, ranking only 25th in passing attempts and a workmanlike 19th in pass yardage, Gannon still amassed an impressively efficient 28 TD to only 11 ints. I'd imagine that was in part because defenses had to respect the run, wouldn't you?

Another couple of facts are the "take off the robe and throw punches" quote attributed to Gruden after the 2004 season regarding the run game (what could possibly have motivated him to say that?) and the fact that he's drafted heavily along the OL since then, in addition to signing Petitgout, who comes from a team that ranked 15th or better in rushing all but once since 2001.

Add all that up, and it's clear that Gruden knows what makes his offense work at it's highest level, and that's the balance between the passing and running game. But the running game has to be there first, which is my point, based on the history, words and actions of the head coach.


You seem to take my words to the extreme, but I never said this offense doesn't need a good QB. He doesnt have to be a superstar, ask Brad Johnson, just one who can take advantage of the opportunities presented by a running game and maintain that aforementioned balance, i.e. some well timed completions and the occasional big play. and OK, with Garcia, a scramble here and there..


Feel free to diagree some more, but I hope that clears my persective up a little.







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#170 : July 09, 2007, 04:43:29 PM

I agree with your post - while I still think the main attribute of the WCO is to pass to set up the run, Gruden's system was always MORE reliant on the run. It does allow you the flexibility of passing more when the opposition is better against the run than the pass - but for the most part I think Gruden seeks to create mismatches while seeking to utilize the run.

You are right to mention Gannon. He masterd the decision making in the WCO, he was accurate, had a quick release, and was quick to run when needed. Johnson was good because of his total game managment, quick release and timing. His attributes made him a WCO anomally - no footspeed but some success. Unfortunately if you're slow footed you will take some punishment - as Brad did with the Bucs. They didn't call him "The Bull" for nothing!

Again concerning Simms - If you're not a good decision maker (more INT's than TD's - more sacks than receptions) and your not accurate (INT and incompletions) and you can't scramble or gain yards with your feet - then you won't be succesful. If Chris could have improved his release (he hasn't) his footspeed/placement (he hasn't) or his mastery of the offense (he hasn't) he would have been succesful (he isn't).

Add to that the fact that his blind side protection is reliant on the weakest pass blocker on the line, and you have a perfect storm of negatives.

The brite side is: All of those issues are solved this year.

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