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T

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#15 : July 07, 2007, 09:32:42 AM

he wouldnt be the best coach for us considering the fact we are cover 2 4-3 defense he runs a
3-4

He's just a puppet up there in New England anyway.    He'd run any defense the Glazers wanted him to run if he came here.   He'd make a good puppet wherever he went.

Do you think before you write something? For a puppet, THREE SB rings and playoff appearances (how many years in a row?) sure seem to cut any strings that might have been attached. Your golden boy took Dungy's team to the SB - what has he done with the team since '02???????????
Your post lost all credibility when you mentioned Dungy's team. PR posters are smart enough to know it wasn't Dungy's team.

So you infer that I am stupid? How civil of you to note that.
I suggest you reacquaint yourself with the '02 team, most of the coaching staff AND players were here in '01 and before. I do give Gruden credit for utilizing the talents he had, but again what has he done since?

Actually the 2002 Buccaneers brought in one of the biggest Free Agent classes of that paticular off season.To offset the loss of premium draft picks of course.Those Free Agents were not lured here by Dungy they were brought in by Gruden and company.Gruden made this team his TEAM early in training camp when he challenged the Defense to stop being good and become great. His intensity and attitude challenged players like Warren Sapp,Simeon Rice,Ronde Barber and Derrick Brooks to be better than they were.You will get the entire picture if you watch the NFL network's special called America's Game, where Sapp and players elaborate on what I've just stated.

Gruden had to put together a completely new offensive staff excluding Bill Muir.He wasn't allowed to bring any of his Oakland assistants with him. Yes, the Defensive coaching staff was in place but thats it.This truly was Gruden's team in 2002.

Also, I am not a Gruden apologist I just give credit where credit is due. I support the Franchise and not anyone player or coach.


JavaBuc

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#16 : July 07, 2007, 09:35:50 AM

So you infer that I am stupid? How civil of you to note that.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

As if you didn't do that exact same thing towards me with your intial post.....

LtFox

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#17 : July 07, 2007, 09:36:15 AM

I wouldnt even want Belichick. The guy proved what he could do when he was coaching the Browns. Nothing. He's a product of that Patriots system. The ownership and management is to blame for their success, not Belichick. Gruden puts Belichick to shame.
I have been reading this forum for years and that is absolutely the dumbest post I have ever read. How many owners institute game plans each week? Do you think the owner had the foresight to draft Tom Brady in the 6th round? Belicheck is a LEGEND in the NFL and has no equal when compared to other coaches of his era. You are out of your mind thinking Gruden is anywhere near the talent level of Belicheck. No coach has won more with less. Name (besides Brady) all the Pro Bowl palyers on the Patriots. Bill gets the most out of "average joes". Until this year the Pats never signed big name talent via free agency. Ask Peyton Manning what he thinks of Bill's ability to coach. Indy had ten times the talent and couldn't compete with the Pats for years.

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#18 : July 07, 2007, 09:45:13 AM

LtFox, why was Belichick such a failure in Cleveland if he is a LEGEND?   (He was fired from that job, you know?)

Belichick is the same old coach he was in Cleveland.   The difference is the owner and management of the Patriots is better than it was in Cleveland.

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#19 : July 07, 2007, 10:12:38 AM

LtFox, why was Belichick such a failure in Cleveland if he is a LEGEND?   (He was fired from that job, you know?)

Belichick is the same old coach he was in Cleveland. The difference is the owner and management of the Patriots is better than it was in Cleveland.
Didn't Belichick take Cleveland to the playoffs? I don't remember everyone saying how great the Patriot management was when Pete Carrol was their Head Coach, when Parcells left a Super Bowl team to him.


Tampa Bay Todd

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#20 : July 07, 2007, 11:54:18 AM

If Mr. B does come here, he's going to have to change his fashion style. Not much need for hooded sweatshirts with the sleeves cut off in Tampa. Honestly, I don't know why the league administration lets him wear that stuff on the sidelines on game day. Your a professional football coach, at least dress like one. Jack Del Rio and Mike Nolan wanted to wear suits for crying out loud and this guy looks like he just woke up after sleeping on a bench at the bus station.


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#21 : July 07, 2007, 12:13:19 PM

LtFox, why was Belichick such a failure in Cleveland if he is a LEGEND?   (He was fired from that job, you know?)

Belichick is the same old coach he was in Cleveland. The difference is the owner and management of the Patriots is better than it was in Cleveland.
Didn't Belichick take Cleveland to the playoffs?

....and beat the Patriots. The one Bellichick Browns team that did well finished #1 in points allowed....kind of out of nowhere. I think that team had some Giant leftovers who helped out. A lot of people forget that Bellichick as the DC for the Giants and a very good one. To imply he's not a good coach is naive.

Whether he'd help here is open to debate. Those wishing for a replacement for Gruden need to consider that the next coach will have a new DC and it's debateable whether the current Buc defensive personell will fit with the next DC. So a quick turnaround may not be possible.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#22 : July 07, 2007, 01:58:38 PM

He is the Phil Jackson of the NFL I doubt he would come here because we don't have a great QB. He gets away with wearing that dirty old man sweatshirt now because he wins and he wins because of Tom Brady. He makes Dungy look like Robin Williams. I would rather keep Gruden with his weak system than to have a overrated (IMO) coach, I think Gruden is also overated, but not nearly as much these days.

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#23 : July 07, 2007, 02:17:28 PM

he wouldnt be the best coach for us considering the fact we are cover 2 4-3 defense he runs a
3-4

He's just a puppet up there in New England anyway.    He'd run any defense the Glazers wanted him to run if he came here.   He'd make a good puppet wherever he went.
Do you even watch football? I consider Bellichick to be one of the best coaches EVER!


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#24 : July 07, 2007, 02:36:36 PM

He is the Phil Jackson of the NFL I doubt he would come here because we don't have a great QB. He gets away with wearing that dirty old man sweatshirt now because he wins and he wins because of Tom Brady. He makes Dungy look like Robin Williams. I would rather keep Gruden with his weak system than to have a overrated (IMO) coach, I think Gruden is also overated, but not nearly as much these days.

I laught at people who think Phil or Bill B are overrated. Bill's track record speaks for itself as does Phil's. There's a reason these coaches have the amount of rings that they do and for some fool who will never sniff that level bash them is beyond laughable.

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#25 : July 07, 2007, 02:46:51 PM

LtFox, why was Belichick such a failure in Cleveland if he is a LEGEND?   (He was fired from that job, you know?)

Belichick is the same old coach he was in Cleveland. The difference is the owner and management of the Patriots is better than it was in Cleveland.

This logic make absolutely NO SENSE. To say that previous failure is an accurate barometer of someone's worth TODAY is really ignorant. John Elway was a terrible QB his first couple of years in the league. Does that mean he still sucked after winning two Super Bowls? Steve Young couldn't get out of his own way here in Tampa, yet somehow managed to become a perenial Pro Bowl quarterback and Super Bowl champion. Did football analysts say, "He would have been considered an elite quarterback except he had a few bad years in Tampa..." Hell no they didn't. You look at anyone who has truly become great at ANYTHING and more then likely they have failed along the way. That is what makes them great. They come back stronger and build on their failure(s).

The White Tiger

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#26 : July 07, 2007, 02:58:39 PM

Belichick is an excellent coach - but you guys have no idea what your asking for.

Belichick is not a WCO guy. He has had Bledsoe adn Brady as his QB's - neither of those guys move around much. He likes a dropback QB that makes good decisions (QB would need to be overhauled). The new QB would require a pass blocking line, which will require a BIG investment in another type of o-line (think HOGS).

RB would need to be upgraded - Belicheck likes those big power backs (RB would have to be upgraded).

It goes without saying that WR's would need to be upgraded - how much longer can you rely on My Pal Joey...(WR's need upgrading)?

Belichick is a defensive guy - but he LOVES the 3/4. The Buc Defense as we all know is a cover 2 - 4/3 base, while we are building in elements of a 3/4 this year, it is an entirely different thing to convert to a 3/4 base (defense would need to be overhauled).

It also means the investment we've made in this defense (including Monte) would be out the window.

Perhaps it's escaped you that Belichick took over a team that was the style he already agreed with, offensively and defensively. Think Bill can make ALL these adjustments in one year? What would that cost? Think he would even want that challenge?

To switch offensive AND defensive philosophy you're talking about a lot of re-building. You guys that want a major change have NO idea what your asking for. You have been spoiled by the success of the 90's. Do a little investigation into your Bucs prior to the 90's and you can get an idea of what it's like to yield to frustration.

Make sure you know what it is you are asking for.

Mark me down as one of the guys that think Belicheck wants a break. Cowher will be back but his sights are fixed on Washington or Carolina (where he lives).

You can have anything you want - you just have to be willing to pay the price.

First you have to know what that price is. Perhaps this will give you something else to ponder...

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JavaBuc

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#27 : July 07, 2007, 03:03:27 PM

LtFox, why was Belichick such a failure in Cleveland if he is a LEGEND?   (He was fired from that job, you know?)

Belichick is the same old coach he was in Cleveland. The difference is the owner and management of the Patriots is better than it was in Cleveland.

This logic make absolutely NO SENSE. To say that previous failure is an accurate barometer of someone's worth TODAY is really ignorant. John Elway was a terrible QB his first couple of years in the league. Does that mean he still sucked after winning two Super Bowls? Steve Young couldn't get out of his own way here in Tampa, yet somehow managed to become a perenial Pro Bowl quarterback and Super Bowl champion. Did football analysts say, "He would have been considered an elite quarterback except he had a few bad years in Tampa..." Hell no they didn't. You look at anyone who has truly become great at ANYTHING and more then likely they have failed along the way. That is what makes them great. They come back stronger and build on their failure(s).

You are comparing players to coaches?   Give me a break.   That's completely ridiculous.   How about showing me a coach who sucked at first then became great without changing teams and getting new management/ownership?    I guess you're saying Belichick wasn't anything great, but he all of a sudden became great when he went to New England because he had learned from his mistakes.   I think if Belichick went anywhere other than New England, his teams would go right back into the toilet.  I don't think he's any great coach.   People like to give credit to those who succeed.   However, you have to look at the entire situation, not just the one individual.    

Bucluva101

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#28 : July 07, 2007, 03:05:51 PM

This season, you will know whether or not Gruden will stay. If the team plays great, but just loses in those close game then I'd keep the coach. But if we had another season like last year, then just forget about it.


JavaBuc

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#29 : July 07, 2007, 03:06:44 PM

I tell you one thing, if Belichick doesn't win the superbowl this year with all the talent he has - he should be fired.
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