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The White Tiger

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#30 : July 07, 2007, 04:07:22 PM

I tell you one thing, if Belichick doesn't win the superbowl this year with all the talent he has - he should be fired.


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#31 : July 07, 2007, 04:52:18 PM

I wouldnt even want Belichick. The guy proved what he could do when he was coaching the Browns. Nothing. He's a product of that Patriots system. The ownership and management is to blame for their success, not Belichick. Gruden puts Belichick to shame.

Java, Java, Java...... are you ok?

Belichick is an excellent coach - but you guys have no idea what your asking for.

Whats that supposed to mean?  We suck already and are in need of rebuilding... whether it be Chucky or someone else.

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#32 : July 07, 2007, 05:11:53 PM

Its just funny to me how some people think having the best QB in the NFL has nothing to do with his success in New England, or Phil Jackson having the best player ever in the NBA on the bulls and the best Center playing along with one of the best Guards in LA had nothing to do with their success.

Barry Switser won a SB so I guess he was a great coach.

Uncle Stan

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#33 : July 07, 2007, 05:24:02 PM

So what are you really saying?  The coach don't matter, its the players.

Is that something new?

I always thought the coach was responsible. So all you Gruden haters are wrong-its the players that screwed up.

Never thought of it that way. cough cough


Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981



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#34 : July 07, 2007, 05:24:36 PM

Its just funny to me how some people think having the best QB in the NFL has nothing to do with his success in New England, or Phil Jackson having the best player ever in the NBA on the bulls and the best Center playing along with one of the best Guards in LA had nothing to do with their success.

Barry Switser won a SB so I guess he was a great coach.

There is no doubt having THE BEST qb in the game has much to do with his success.... but he chose that qb and had the guts to bench Bledsoe after he won them a playoff game.

The guy has also coached some hella defense causing Manning and Co. much problems.... or should that be attributed to Bob Kraft?(insert sarcasm here)


Lets see, Gruden...... Belichick. Is this really up for debate?

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#35 : July 07, 2007, 05:30:31 PM

Its just funny to me how some people think having the best QB in the NFL has nothing to do with his success in New England, or Phil Jackson having the best player ever in the NBA on the bulls and the best Center playing along with one of the best Guards in LA had nothing to do with their success.

Barry Switser won a SB so I guess he was a great coach.

No coach in the history of any sport can win without talent. That is a given. However, there have been plenty of coaches with an amazing amount of talent that didn't win. Jackson and Belicheck are legendary coaches. It is indisputable. Yes, they had great players, but so do a lot of coaches. The Orlando Magic never won a championship with Shaq. Jackson won three. Jackson played a big part in Shaq's (and the Laker's) success.

Also, you mentioned Belicheck having the best quarterback in the league. Belicheck drafted Brady in the SIXTH round (199th overall). How is it that every other coach in the league missed that one? Maybe he is just a great coach?

Lastly, Switzer was not the coach of Dallas. Jerry Jones coached for them that year :)

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#36 : July 07, 2007, 08:35:10 PM

Belichick drafted Brady?    I thought the Patriots GM did.

The White Tiger

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#37 : July 07, 2007, 11:11:07 PM

Whats that supposed to mean?  We suck already and are in need of rebuilding... whether it be Chucky or someone else.

I like you Hate- I do - but I think you missed this part of my quote:

Belichick is not a WCO guy. He has had Bledsoe anD Brady as his QB's - neither of those guys move around much. He likes a dropback QB that makes good decisions (QB would need to be overhauled). The new QB would require a pass blocking line, which will require a BIG investment in another type of o-line (think HOGS).

RB would need to be upgraded - Belicheck likes those big power backs (RB would have to be upgraded).

It goes without saying that WR's would need to be upgraded - how much longer can you rely on My Pal Joey...(WR's need upgrading)?

Belichick is a defensive guy - but he LOVES the 3/4. The Buc Defense as we all know run a cover 2 - 4/3 base, while we are building in elements of a 3/4 this year, it is an entirely different thing to convert to a 3/4 base (defense would need to be overhauled).

To switch offensive AND defensive philosophy you're talking about a lot of re-building.

So the re-building we were supposed to do in 2002 on the offense - but delayed because Gruden felt the pressure to win now, despite the salary cap issues and draft pick losses - means the fickle fans of Tampa are going to WAIT for Belichick to rebuild?

We aren't going to want immediate success?

IMO we're half way there with what we got - and I say we roll with what we got and let the coach worry about who fills that chair at the end of the season.

Like I said, just know what your asking for.

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#38 : July 07, 2007, 11:33:48 PM

IMO we're half way there with what we got - and I say we roll with what we got and let the coach worry about who fills that chair at the end of the season.

Like I said, just know what your asking for.

What I'm asking for is improvement and am not seeing it under the current regime. I respect your opinion and understood your quote fully. Problem is we disagree on current state of our team.... you feel we're half way there, i feel we're faaaaar away. Our ONLY offensive playmaker is 36. The wr and rb of our future are mediocre(in my opinion), we have no idea who our qb will be in 08, and we've been building an offensive line for who knows how many years. Having Belichick at the helm wouldn't put us any further back than we are right now. Those items that you bolded need to be overhauled right now, with Gruden or whoever running things.

The White Tiger

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#39 : July 08, 2007, 12:42:14 AM

And I respect your opinion - you're right it's just that this time we're on opposite sides on this issue.

I simply think RB and O-line will improve with better QB play. If he can win I don't care how old he is (wasn't Brad 37 the year we went to the superbowl?).

Defense as been upgraded. I think bringing in a Belicheck or a Cowher means a complete overhaul - not upgrading. Changing philosophies from a 4/3 to a 3/4 means teaching concepts. Add to that you don't have a defensive base of veterans to rely on to assist teaching the new system. Changing from a WCO to a drop back style means the same for the offense.

I see the work Gruden did with the offense in 2002, then I multiply that times two, I calculate that means we struggle.

We've definitely been struggling but I am finally seeing daylight . With this years moves and future of cap room and draft picks, I see the gloves coming off...maybe it's just me.

Not saying your opinioin is wrong - just see a lot of posters getting gleeful about a new head coach. Not sure everyones tallied up that cost. I'm trying to present a side perhaps we haven't all considered.

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#40 : July 08, 2007, 01:18:34 AM

This season, you will know whether or not Gruden will stay. If the team plays great, but just loses in those close game then I'd keep the coach. But if we had another season like last year, then just forget about it.


like the sig you got there it looks familiar


LA BUC

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#41 : July 08, 2007, 03:22:11 AM

I say have a match between Gruden and Belichick say like in the  Super Bowl, and the winner comes to Tampa.

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#42 : July 08, 2007, 04:30:50 AM

Everyone thinks that if the Bucs fail to make the playoffs, Gruden is out. Why do people assume this? That is not what Joel Glazer said. Joel said that the team needs to show improvement. He said nothing about the playoffs and nothing about the Super Bowl. He also never said anything about a winning record either. So even with a losing record again this year, Gruden still may keep his job as long as the team showed improvement.

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#43 : July 08, 2007, 12:24:26 PM

If Mr. B does come here, he's going to have to change his fashion style. Not much need for hooded sweatshirts with the sleeves cut off in Tampa. Honestly, I don't know why the league administration lets him wear that stuff on the sidelines on game day. Your a professional football coach, at least dress like one. Jack Del Rio and Mike Nolan wanted to wear suits for crying out loud and this guy looks like he just woke up after sleeping on a bench at the bus station.

Yeah....dressing well sure has done wonders for Jack Del Rio and Mike Nolan. If a coach could win three rings here in Tampa I could care less if he did it wearing a T-back. Why would anyone care what the hell he wears? 

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#44 : July 08, 2007, 12:59:25 PM

And I respect your opinion - you're right it's just that this time we're on opposite sides on this issue.

I simply think RB and O-line will improve with better QB play. If he can win I don't care how old he is (wasn't Brad 37 the year we went to the superbowl?).

Defense as been upgraded. I think bringing in a Belicheck or a Cowher means a complete overhaul - not upgrading. Changing philosophies from a 4/3 to a 3/4 means teaching concepts. Add to that you don't have a defensive base of veterans to rely on to assist teaching the new system. Changing from a WCO to a drop back style means the same for the offense.

I see the work Gruden did with the offense in 2002, then I multiply that times two, I calculate that means we struggle.

We've definitely been struggling but I am finally seeing daylight . With this years moves and future of cap room and draft picks, I see the gloves coming off...maybe it's just me.

Not saying your opinioin is wrong - just see a lot of posters getting gleeful about a new head coach. Not sure everyones tallied up that cost. I'm trying to present a side perhaps we haven't all considered.

Brad Johnson is 38 this year.
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