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Skull and Bones

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« : July 24, 2007, 05:39:23 PM »

An FBI gambling investigation into retired referee Tim Donaghy and match fixing sparked credibility-crushing fear around the National Basketball Association on Monday amid more disturbing reports.

The New York Post, citing an unnamed source, reported Donaghy was ready to cooperate with authorities and name other referees, players, coaches and gambling figures who might be involved in the league-rocking scandal.

A terrified Donaghy, whose name was first unearthed during wiretaps in the Gambino mobster case, had received death threats and received police protection in the wake of the probe, the Post reported, saying relatives urged him to join a witness relocation program.

Federal investigators are looking into claims Donaghy, 40, worked with mobsters to fix margins and outcomes of NBA games to pay off gambling debts.

He resigned earlier this month after a 13-year career following allegations, then unpublicized, that he bet on games that he officiated.

No specific games in which he was involved have been revealed as being under scrutiny, although among those he handled was a game in the San Antonio-Phoenix playoff series.

San Antonio beat the Suns and swept to the NBA crown over Cleveland in the finals.

Jalen Rose, who played last season for Phoenix, told ESPN he was hopeful the scandal was simply Donaghy acting alone and not a major conspiracy by referees whose foul calls can alter outcomes and send superstars to the bench early.

"My immediate reaction was surprise, shock and disappointment for all our league," Rose said.

"This is very disturbing. You just hope this snowball does not grow bigger. This should not be a black eye for the league, we hope."

NBA commissioner David Stern has called a Tuesday morning news conference where he will answer questions on the matter. He made a statement Friday when news of the scandal became public.

"We have been cooperating with the FBI in their investigation of allegations that a single NBA referee bet on NBA games that he officiated," Stern said.

"We would like to assure our fans that no amount of effort, time or personnel is being spared to assist in this investigation, to bring to justice an individual who has betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports, and to take the necessary steps to protect against this ever happening again."

As a referee, Donaghy would have known which referees were assigned to what games weeks in advance, potentially allowing gamblers to consult internet sites that chart referee tendencies and know before teams who would handle games.

The New York Daily News, citing an unnamed source, reported NBA officials had a private investigator following Donaghy more than a year ago but continued to assign him to games into the second round of the NBA playoffs last May.

The News also reported that Donaghy received an above-average evaluation from superiors last season, when Donaghy called the most technical fouls of any referee in the NBA.

In two games involving the New York Knicks last season, Donaghy called two technicals, an automatic ejection, on Chicago coach Scott Skiles and then was among a crew that gave the Knicks 39 free throws to eight for Miami and whistled technicals on Miami coach Pat Riley, assistant coach Ron Rothstein and the Heat defense for three defensive three-second violations.

Investigators also told the News they hope Donaghy will implicate other referees and any players or coaches involved in the scandal.

Another issue impacted by the NBA and gambling is consideration of having an NBA franchise in Las Vegas, the US gambling mecca where NBA players will try to capture an Olympic berth at an Americas tournament six weeks from now.

Stern has been opposed to has a Vegas team while gamblers there can legally bet upon NBA games at local sports booking parlors, but a source told the News the Donaghy situation probably will have no affect upon a possible Vegas club.

Gambling has been a sore subject with the NBA for years, from Michael Jordan's trips to casinos and golfing bets in the 1990s while leading Chicago to six NBA titles to former All-Star Charles Barkley's admissions to losing 10 million dollars on casino wagers.

Jordan is now the top basketball executive for the NBA Charlotte Bobcats while Barkley is a television commentator for NBA games. Neither has been linked to bets upon NBA games.


dalbuc

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« #1 : July 24, 2007, 05:56:26 PM »


The New York Post, citing an unnamed source, reported Donaghy was ready to cooperate with authorities and name other referees, players, coaches and gambling figures who might be involved in the league-rocking scandal.


Right now this is embarrassing, if it gets bigger and this is true then things get really, really ugly in the NBA because they have a systemic problem.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BucJam07

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« #2 : July 24, 2007, 07:41:45 PM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.




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Ericsbucs371

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« #3 : July 24, 2007, 08:34:12 PM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
all of this and the steroid problem and lack of a salary cap that baseball has just reminds me how great the NFL is. It's the best major league sport.


Skull and Bones

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« #4 : July 24, 2007, 09:35:07 PM »

I love college basketball even though many blue chippers are now bypassing it or staying only a year or two at the most.  The NBA has been a joke for a long time with their illegal defense rule which basically forces teams to play man to man so that the stars can't be shut down and the refs have always favored stars and vets over rookies and bench players.  And did they ever call travelling on MJ?  Officiating in the NBA has always seemed to me to be tainted.


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« #5 : July 25, 2007, 08:30:04 AM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
Then why do you like the NFL so much?  The NFL has more thugs, IMO.

Rae Carruth.  Ray Lewis (at one point).  Tank.  Pacman.  Vick.  Joey Porter.  Jerramy Stevens.  Torrie Cox.  Mike Pittman (at one point).  The Raiders guy, the one who got shot, and AWOLed the SB (Robins?).  I did not even mention half the Bengals team yet.  The list goes on forever.

The NBA has thugs, but the NFL has more of a problem with them, IMO.

The NBA sucks because it lacks star power.

There are no Reggie Millers, Charles BArkleys, Mike Jordans/Scottie Pippens, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodmans, Pat Ewings, Akeem Olajuwons, Magic Johnsons, Kareem Abdul Jabbars, Gary Payton (when he was still the Glove, and teamed with Kemp), Larry Birds, etc...

Instead we have crybaby Kobe, and his whining crap, a boring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (who we mostly talk about in reference to his wife), Shaq...and Nash.  King James.

The league is suffering because it lacks marketing power, the rivalries are dead.


MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #6 : July 25, 2007, 09:00:37 AM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
Then why do you like the NFL so much? The NFL has more thugs, IMO.

Rae Carruth. Ray Lewis (at one point). Tank. Pacman. Vick. Joey Porter. Jerramy Stevens. Torrie Cox. Mike Pittman (at one point). The Raiders guy, the one who got shot, and AWOLed the SB (Robins?). I did not even mention half the Bengals team yet. The list goes on forever.

The NBA has thugs, but the NFL has more of a problem with them, IMO.

The NBA sucks because it lacks star power.

There are no Reggie Millers, Charles BArkleys, Mike Jordans/Scottie Pippens, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodmans, Pat Ewings, Akeem Olajuwons, Magic Johnsons, Kareem Abdul Jabbars, Gary Payton (when he was still the Glove, and teamed with Kemp), Larry Birds, etc...

Instead we have crybaby Kobe, and his whining crap, a boring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (who we mostly talk about in reference to his wife), Shaq...and Nash. King James.

The league is suffering because it lacks marketing power, the rivalries are dead.
Of course the NFL has more thugs. An NFL roster is 53 players, while an NBA roster is 12 players.

The NBA doesn't suck, because of thugs. It sucks, because the basketball sucks.

You are right about rivalries being dead though.

BTW, Scottie Pippen is/was a nobody.

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Boid Fink

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« #7 : July 25, 2007, 09:45:52 AM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
Then why do you like the NFL so much? The NFL has more thugs, IMO.

Rae Carruth. Ray Lewis (at one point). Tank. Pacman. Vick. Joey Porter. Jerramy Stevens. Torrie Cox. Mike Pittman (at one point). The Raiders guy, the one who got shot, and AWOLed the SB (Robins?). I did not even mention half the Bengals team yet. The list goes on forever.

The NBA has thugs, but the NFL has more of a problem with them, IMO.

The NBA sucks because it lacks star power.

There are no Reggie Millers, Charles BArkleys, Mike Jordans/Scottie Pippens, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodmans, Pat Ewings, Akeem Olajuwons, Magic Johnsons, Kareem Abdul Jabbars, Gary Payton (when he was still the Glove, and teamed with Kemp), Larry Birds, etc...

Instead we have crybaby Kobe, and his whining crap, a boring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (who we mostly talk about in reference to his wife), Shaq...and Nash. King James.

The league is suffering because it lacks marketing power, the rivalries are dead.
Of course the NFL has more thugs. An NFL roster is 53 players, while an NBA roster is 12 players.

The NBA doesn't suck, because of thugs. It sucks, because the basketball sucks.

You are right about rivalries being dead though.

BTW, Scottie Pippen is/was a nobody.
Pip was the man. 

BTW, he is amongst the Top 50 greatest all time NBA players.  Not too shabby for a nobody...

And BTW, I forgot to mention Stockton to Malone.


MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #8 : July 25, 2007, 09:57:36 AM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
Then why do you like the NFL so much? The NFL has more thugs, IMO.

Rae Carruth. Ray Lewis (at one point). Tank. Pacman. Vick. Joey Porter. Jerramy Stevens. Torrie Cox. Mike Pittman (at one point). The Raiders guy, the one who got shot, and AWOLed the SB (Robins?). I did not even mention half the Bengals team yet. The list goes on forever.

The NBA has thugs, but the NFL has more of a problem with them, IMO.

The NBA sucks because it lacks star power.

There are no Reggie Millers, Charles BArkleys, Mike Jordans/Scottie Pippens, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodmans, Pat Ewings, Akeem Olajuwons, Magic Johnsons, Kareem Abdul Jabbars, Gary Payton (when he was still the Glove, and teamed with Kemp), Larry Birds, etc...

Instead we have crybaby Kobe, and his whining crap, a boring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (who we mostly talk about in reference to his wife), Shaq...and Nash. King James.

The league is suffering because it lacks marketing power, the rivalries are dead.
Of course the NFL has more thugs. An NFL roster is 53 players, while an NBA roster is 12 players.

The NBA doesn't suck, because of thugs. It sucks, because the basketball sucks.

You are right about rivalries being dead though.

BTW, Scottie Pippen is/was a nobody.
Pip was the man.

BTW, he is amongst the Top 50 greatest all time NBA players. Not too shabby for a nobody...

And BTW, I forgot to mention Stockton to Malone.
Pipp was a nobody. Jordan was the man. Pipp was a role player, along with the rest Jordan's teammates.

He was top 50 according to that ESPN countdown, if I recall. Wasn't that the same countdown that didn't include Dominique (sp?) Wilkins? Pippen couldn't hold The Human Highlight Film's jock. Those ratings mean nothing, IMO.

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Skull and Bones

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« #9 : July 25, 2007, 10:11:32 AM »

Pippen was by far a better all around player than Wilkins.  Scottie could actually play defense and was a good passer and ballhandler.  Even the Pippen led Bull teams were still pretty good.

The star power of the NBA from the 80s and 90s, while good for ratings, was the reason the league was corrupted with their officiating and rules.  The system was set up for the stars to put up big numbers.  Not pure basketball IMHO.  The biggest problem with the NBA today is the guarenteed contracts of $50-100 million.  At least NFL players have to earn their rooster spot/salary every year for the most part.


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« #10 : July 25, 2007, 10:13:01 AM »

all great points by boid.  The thuggery in the NFL is what prevents it from being my favorite sport.

"there are no medals here for who can stay at the office the longest," said Jagodzinski. "I'm not into that. The guys that brag about working till 2 in the morning, in my opinion, they're just not smart enough. "

18,2,25,13 ... murderers row?

I support coach Calhoun and his salary

MrFreakinMiyagi

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« #11 : July 25, 2007, 10:29:43 AM »

Pippen was by far a better all around player than Wilkins. Scottie could actually play defense and was a good passer and ballhandler. Even the Pippen led Bull teams were still pretty good.

The star power of the NBA from the 80s and 90s, while good for ratings, was the reason the league was corrupted with their officiating and rules. The system was set up for the stars to put up big numbers. Not pure basketball IMHO. The biggest problem with the NBA today is the guarenteed contracts of $50-100 million. At least NFL players have to earn their rooster spot/salary every year for the most part.
Pippen was a better defender, but anyone who would've preferred to have Pippen on their team over Nique should have their head examined.

He shouldn't have ever sniffed the top 50 all time.

The best team he played for, without Jordan, was when he was with Portland, where he was a role player AGAIN. He was never THE MAN on a highly successful team, cuz he couldn't be THE MAN.

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Boid Fink

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« #12 : July 25, 2007, 10:35:42 AM »

I wonder how long this has been going on. I bet a while...like 5+ years.


80% of the reasons why the NBA stinks is the thugs who play in it's league, the other 20% is due to thier lack of basic, routine and fundamental skills.
Then why do you like the NFL so much? The NFL has more thugs, IMO.

Rae Carruth. Ray Lewis (at one point). Tank. Pacman. Vick. Joey Porter. Jerramy Stevens. Torrie Cox. Mike Pittman (at one point). The Raiders guy, the one who got shot, and AWOLed the SB (Robins?). I did not even mention half the Bengals team yet. The list goes on forever.

The NBA has thugs, but the NFL has more of a problem with them, IMO.

The NBA sucks because it lacks star power.

There are no Reggie Millers, Charles BArkleys, Mike Jordans/Scottie Pippens, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodmans, Pat Ewings, Akeem Olajuwons, Magic Johnsons, Kareem Abdul Jabbars, Gary Payton (when he was still the Glove, and teamed with Kemp), Larry Birds, etc...

Instead we have crybaby Kobe, and his whining crap, a boring Tim Duncan, Tony Parker (who we mostly talk about in reference to his wife), Shaq...and Nash. King James.

The league is suffering because it lacks marketing power, the rivalries are dead.
Of course the NFL has more thugs. An NFL roster is 53 players, while an NBA roster is 12 players.

The NBA doesn't suck, because of thugs. It sucks, because the basketball sucks.

You are right about rivalries being dead though.

BTW, Scottie Pippen is/was a nobody.
Pip was the man.

BTW, he is amongst the Top 50 greatest all time NBA players. Not too shabby for a nobody...

And BTW, I forgot to mention Stockton to Malone.
Pipp was a nobody. Jordan was the man. Pipp was a role player, along with the rest Jordan's teammates.

He was top 50 according to that ESPN countdown, if I recall. Wasn't that the same countdown that didn't include Dominique (sp?) Wilkins? Pippen couldn't hold The Human Highlight Film's jock. Those ratings mean nothing, IMO.
Pippen was rated top 50 by the NBA players association.  So his peers got him in.  I remember watching them all decked out in the leather NBA coats, standing on the hardwood...

And Pippen was a close to twenty point scorer (in his prime), could defend ANYBODY (except a center) as well as anyone.  He blocked shots, he grabbed boards, he ran a great break, and was a deft passer, he was a thief on the ball.  He could shoot from anywhere, and could create his own shot.  Without Jordan, when the Bulls made the playoffs, he got them there on his merit.  Pippen was the man, watched him every year, including when Seattle traded him on draft day for Olden Polynice (I believe, wow that was a while ago), and he was a GREAT ball player...espescially when he was dunking on Ewing, or Olajuwon.

Dominique was legit, he was a scoring machine, usually number 2 behind Mike, but he was a ball hog in the TRUEST sense of the word, he would drive against an entire paint area, and throw up some crazy jive.  He was not a team leader, he was not a defensive anything, and he would often act as if his teammates weren't there.  Spud Webb, Doc Rivers, Cliff Levingston, Tree Rollins, Jon Koncak (funny he got a big signing, and people called him Jon Contract) really didn't deserve the ball as much as Nique did, but we will never know, now will we?

Anyway, Pippen was legit, he was a force.  When you get voted in by your peers, it says a lot.




Boid Fink

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« #13 : July 25, 2007, 10:37:45 AM »

Pippen was by far a better all around player than Wilkins. Scottie could actually play defense and was a good passer and ballhandler. Even the Pippen led Bull teams were still pretty good.

The star power of the NBA from the 80s and 90s, while good for ratings, was the reason the league was corrupted with their officiating and rules. The system was set up for the stars to put up big numbers. Not pure basketball IMHO. The biggest problem with the NBA today is the guarenteed contracts of $50-100 million. At least NFL players have to earn their rooster spot/salary every year for the most part.
Pippen was a better defender, but anyone who would've preferred to have Pippen on their team over Nique should have their head examined.

He shouldn't have ever sniffed the top 50 all time.

The best team he played for, without Jordan, was when he was with Portland, where he was a role player AGAIN. He was never THE MAN on a highly successful team, cuz he couldn't be THE MAN.
He got a lousy Jordanless Bulls into the playoffs...and to 50 wins.  Not too shabby, IMO.


dalbuc

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« #14 : July 25, 2007, 10:56:22 AM »

I thought top 50 all time was a bit much for Scottie who was the definition of Robin. Still, he was a very very good player and less for his scoring than for his passing and defense.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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