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Feel Real Good

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#315 : August 01, 2007, 08:54:43 AM

Suddenly when Gruden comes along in 2001 we pull the following offensive talent together?

TE - Ken Dilger
G  - Kerry Jenkins
WR - Joe Jurevicius
WR - Keenan McCardell
LOT - Roman Oben
RB - Micheal Pittman

Rich could have done this - but he really hadn't prior to this.

We signed 19 FA's (14 offensive FA's 5 Defensive FA's) and only 4 were re-signs.

Clearly Gruden should get more than the "motivation of the players" that you relegate him to...

Since he won a superbowl after the addition of HIS talent, Gruden was either: A) better at motivating, B) better at playcalling, C) better at identifying talent, or D) Gruden was just plain better at coaching than Tony Dungy - which is it?

Yeah me too, E) all of the above...
Those signings were great at the time but Dilger and Jenkins are now out of the league, Jurevicius is on his third team in 3 years, McCardell just joined his sixth team, Oben is now a backup, and Pittman is a role player. In other words they were short term fixes. Gruden has shown he's pretty good with short term fixes but what could really get him in trouble are his long term players. Who are going to be the team's next bunch of perennial pro bowlers like Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, and co. were?

I don't see why you bring Dungy into this. No one in this thread is saying he shouldn't have been fired and Gruden shouldn't have been hired. The issue is where is the team five years later and what direction is it going. It's really immature when someone says something about Gruden and/or Allen and you reply McKay did this or Dungy did that. They're both gone for a reason. The failures of the past shouldn't be used to justify the failures of the present.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Snook

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#316 : August 01, 2007, 08:57:23 AM

None of this matters anyways.  Its 2007 and we're DOOMED!!!  DOOMED!!!!


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#317 : August 01, 2007, 08:58:30 AM

I don't see why you bring Dungy into this. No one in this thread is saying he shouldn't have been fired and Gruden shouldn't have been hired. The issue is where is the team five years later and what direction is it going. It's really immature when someone says something about Gruden and/or Allen and you reply McKay did this or Dungy did that. They're both gone for a reason. The failures of the past shouldn't be used to justify the failures of the present.
NIcely said! The team is at a point now that you cant use McKay or Dungy as an excuse for anything wrong with the team. It is Gruden and Allen's team.  It is their time to turn this team around or they can go the same way Dungy and McKay did.

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#318 : August 01, 2007, 08:59:32 AM

None of this matters anyways. Its 2007 and we're DOOMED!!! DOOMED!!!!
LOL I'm going to hold this against you now.

Snook

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#319 : August 01, 2007, 09:41:31 AM

Cancel the season!  Afterall, especially through the 1st 5 games, we're DOOMED!!!


ryan24

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#320 : August 01, 2007, 09:57:14 AM

Suddenly when Gruden comes along in 2001 we pull the following offensive talent together?

TE - Ken Dilger
G  - Kerry Jenkins
WR - Joe Jurevicius
WR - Keenan McCardell
LOT - Roman Oben
RB - Micheal Pittman

Rich could have done this - but he really hadn't prior to this.

We signed 19 FA's (14 offensive FA's 5 Defensive FA's) and only 4 were re-signs.

Clearly Gruden should get more than the "motivation of the players" that you relegate him to...

Since he won a superbowl after the addition of HIS talent, Gruden was either: A) better at motivating, B) better at playcalling, C) better at identifying talent, or D) Gruden was just plain better at coaching than Tony Dungy - which is it?

Yeah me too, E) all of the above...
Those signings were great at the time but Dilger and Jenkins are now out of the league, Jurevicius is on his third team in 3 years, McCardell just joined his sixth team, Oben is now a backup, and Pittman is a role player. In other words they were short term fixes. Gruden has shown he's pretty good with short term fixes but what could really get him in trouble are his long term players. Who are going to be the team's next bunch of perennial pro bowlers like Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, and co. were?

I don't know. Why don't we bring Sam Wyche in to run the draft?

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#321 : August 01, 2007, 01:23:05 PM

Those signings were great at the time but Dilger and Jenkins are now out of the league, Jurevicius is on his third team in 3 years, McCardell just joined his sixth team, Oben is now a backup, and Pittman is a role player. In other words they were short term fixes. Gruden has shown he's pretty good with short term fixes but what could really get him in trouble are his long term players. Who are going to be the team's next bunch of perennial pro bowlers like Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, and co. were?

I don't see why you bring Dungy into this. No one in this thread is saying he shouldn't have been fired and Gruden shouldn't have been hired. The issue is where is the team five years later and what direction is it going. It's really immature when someone says something about Gruden and/or Allen and you reply McKay did this or Dungy did that. They're both gone for a reason. The failures of the past shouldn't be used to justify the failures of the present.

Yeah that's what happens with players as they age 6 years. You did know that Cato June didn't re-sign with Indianapolis Colts, right? Does that mean Tony can't keep his players? Did he do something to make Cato mad? Could it be that Tony just didn't have the money to sign everyone he wanted to keep? Using this type of rationale, couldn't you also say that the Bucs didn't have the money to sign folks that could have helped the Bucs these past several years?

Does it matter AT ALL that we MISSED 7 first day draft picks? They could be contributing mightily by now - it would be just about time for that.

Did Gruden and Allen make mistakes - undeniably. At least they learned from them as the mistakes were limited and the effects were short term - and not repeated.

I have heard many of Gruden's detractors mention that he hates his players - and they hate him. Yet Quarrels re-signed with the team today (as a pro scout), Sapp visited him this week. Rich Gannon and Tim Brown both showed up when he asked them to come by. Perhaps the rancor of the moment makes people say things that they don't really mean? Perhaps perspective gives a longer view and some understanding of the meaning of the relationship is re-examined - positively?

I have heard that Gruden can't assemble talent. Yet suddenly we have the likes of Luke Petitgout, Jeff Garcia, Cato June, Kevin Carter, Askew, Chukwurah - and Gruden did pretty well with those 19 folks he chose in 2002.

I have heard how he is only offensively focused, yet I see a draft so defensively loaded that only Aaron Sears (2nd), Chris Denman (7th), Kenneth Darby were only offensive additions from the 10 draft picks - could it be that he was charged with building an offense FIRST? That offense took a long time to re-build and now it is obvious he has begun to rebuild the TEAM.

It could be that we just didn't have the money (cap space - like Tony) and the draft picks didn't get developed - because they weren't here.

It could be that Gruden's detractors are wrong.

It could be...

We'll find out soon enough.


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