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BucJam07

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#15 : August 01, 2007, 04:59:18 PM

Just because you win in the cap era doesn't make you a superior coach to the guys who have paved your way to your own success.


Coach = Teacher

Belichek isn't teaching anything different than the rest of these guys, he's just had a great kicker put multiple game winning kicks thru the uprights more often in championship games. Which doesn't matter in my book.

Bill Walsh is the greatest teacher of the game of football we've ever seen. He changed the game on offense which in turn made defenses change the way they played. Which ended in new types of strategies that are used by every coach on both sides of the ball in the league today.

There's no dispute, thus making him the best Coach = Teacher of all-time.




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tampabayfan

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#16 : August 01, 2007, 05:07:40 PM

of all time-- NO! Great coach, great system, smart man.  I think he has done a great thing in the modern era dealing with salary cap, competing against 31 other teams and developing young talent. He's probably the best coach in the NFL at the moment.  Greatest ever--NAH!

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#17 : August 01, 2007, 05:09:50 PM

As long as we forget his time in Cleveland.
Didn't he take the Browns to the playoffs?


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#18 : August 01, 2007, 05:12:31 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?

All those guys you metioned have not won MULTIPLE Super Bowl Titles in the Salary Cap era, that's why Belichek is number 1 in my book.

There are coaches who have won 3 and even 4 titles


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#19 : August 01, 2007, 05:16:35 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?

All those guys you metioned have not won MULTIPLE Super Bowl Titles in the Salary Cap era, that's why Belichek is number 1 in my book.

There are coaches who have won 3 and even 4 titles
warren-thoses coaches did it in an era where the playing field was not level. There was no salary cap and not as mnay teams in the league, teams could keep their players for long period of times, also there were not other teams trying to hire your best assistants either.




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#20 : August 01, 2007, 06:04:05 PM

I agree with that statement.

So do I.

The Lombardi's, Halas's, Shula's, Walsh's or Noll's put their teams together and kept them for years. They didn't have to deal with salary caps or free agency. What Belichick has been able to do during this era is pretty damned impressive.

warrenfb12

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#21 : August 01, 2007, 06:18:17 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?

All those guys you metioned have not won MULTIPLE Super Bowl Titles in the Salary Cap era, that's why Belichek is number 1 in my book.

There are coaches who have won 3 and even 4 titles
warren-thoses coaches did it in an era where the playing field was not level. There was no salary cap and not as mnay teams in the league, teams could keep their players for long period of times, also there were not other teams trying to hire your best assistants either.

I understand where your coming from and as much there needs to be a good QB. But if you think his success comes from anything but the patriots front office/management, I have to strongly disagree. Name me one way that he made a difference in a game as a coach? Dont give me the superbowl thing I want to know what he does that is so special. Kiffin here has mastered the cover 2. Bill in cleveland was awful, it is just another example of how he is nothing but a product of his enviornment


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#22 : August 01, 2007, 07:12:21 PM

I live in Maine, and I enjoy  Buccaneers football, so much so that I flew down to attend a couple of TC's. I know pathetic, but still the fans of the patriots and red sox fans in general disgust me. Therefore, it also breeds hatred for the teams.

I know what you mean I live in NH but still you have to respect the guy.  Where down Maine do you live?


Feel Real Good

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#23 : August 01, 2007, 07:34:54 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?
Please. Brady threw for 150 yards in their first Super Bowl. He played the Trent Dilfer role of managing the game. Antowain Smith was the featured back for Pete's sake. David Patten was a starting receiver. He won a Super Bowl with Russ Hochstein at guard and Hochstein sucked so bad he couldn't even play for the Bucs' crappy line. That team was built on defense and Belichick's gameplanning and continues to be. The base formations he used with the extra defensive backs against the Rams is the stuff legends are made from. He's mastered Peyton Manning more than anyone since Steve Spurrier. He made the 3-4 vogue again. He has mastered the draft, always letting players go at the right time and always having someone to replace them, and he's had to deal with injuries that would make the Gruden apologists cringe. The man teaches the little things as well as anyone ever. That's why they win all those close games. His team is routinely the most disciplined in football and that goes straight to the head coach.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#24 : August 01, 2007, 07:39:59 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?

All those guys you metioned have not won MULTIPLE Super Bowl Titles in the Salary Cap era, that's why Belichek is number 1 in my book.

There are coaches who have won 3 and even 4 titles
warren-thoses coaches did it in an era where the playing field was not level. There was no salary cap and not as mnay teams in the league, teams could keep their players for long period of times, also there were not other teams trying to hire your best assistants either.

I understand where your coming from and as much there needs to be a good QB. But if you think his success comes from anything but the patriots front office/management, I have to strongly disagree. Name me one way that he made a difference in a game as a coach? Dont give me the superbowl thing I want to know what he does that is so special. Kiffin here has mastered the cover 2. Bill in cleveland was awful, it is just another example of how he is nothing but a product of his enviornment
He is a master of many defensive fronts and adaptability. His defense uses multiple fronts and he gets players to execute it to perfection who are not superstars. He gets every player to buy into the team concept. Unlike other Head Coaches he helps out on both sides of the ball, when Weis got hired by Notre Dame, Belichek spent more time with the offense. I am no New England fan so I can't say what exactly he has done in certain games to prove he is a the greatest ever. But I do see the results that he produces in a era of a very competitive NFL, he has consistently brought New England a winning record.They have had numerous injuries and have drafted very well, and the Head Coach has a hand in the players that get drafted. I respect what he has accomplished alot more than what any other coach has accomplished.


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#25 : August 01, 2007, 08:32:02 PM

As long as we forget his time in Cleveland.

This guy is my hero. I agree with the cleveland thing completely. Bill has won on the wings of a 6th round QB that happened to be one of the best. If he was so great he would not have had that huge melt down in the second half of the game againts the Colts. About the jealousy thing, it is not that, I live in Maine, and I enjoy  Buccaneers football, so much so that I flew down to attend a couple of TC's. I know pathetic, but still the fans of the patriots and red sox fans in general disgust me. Therefore, it also breeds hatred for the teams.

so according to you and other belicheck bashers, because he didn't do as good with his first team as he did with his team now, that means it's all b/c of tom brady?

interesting... so in your opinion, you dont BECOME great, you're always great. there's no learning. no development. nothing. if he was a great coach he would have been great in cleveland.

WOW. Talk about laughable.

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#26 : August 01, 2007, 08:37:26 PM


See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?


So Brady built Charlie Weis's career and taught Weis everything he knows.... not the other way around? The Offensive Coordinator had ZERO to do with developing a 6th round QB into a star.

Interesting theory.

And you put Vermeil, Dungy and Cowher above Belicheck?! Wow. Speaking of smoking crack.

They won how many Super Bowls COMBINED? And what's even BETTER is that your theory on Belicheck is that he couldnt win without Brady... yet Vermeil didnt win without Warner and Dungy couldnt even SNIFF the Super Bowl until he got Peyton Manning and his cast of talent on offense.

Out of any coach in this discussion, Dungy is the one that has benefitted the most from having a stud QB. If he didnt walk into a great offense in Indianapolis he still wouldnt have that ring.

The reasons you guys use to support your Patriot hate shows that you let emotions cloud your basic thinking.

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#27 : August 01, 2007, 09:09:43 PM

Anybody who is considers Belicheck is the greatest coach in the NFL is seriously losing their mind. I can think of 5 Coaches that have shown they are better than Belicheck. He has no PR skills. Im not saying you need that to be a coach but he dresses like a serious bum for a coach. Seeing that ripped up hoodie time after time says about his character. You see coaches like Jack Del Rio in suits and some others in atleast polos. But to name the 5 are Lombardi of course( Its not the BELICHECK TROPHY its the LOMBARDI!),Don Shula (THE perfect coach for the perfect season), Joe Gibbs ( Helped lead the Redskins to be a powerhouse during the 80s), Bill Walsh (created an entire O that has coaches today making plays influenced off that offense) and Tom Landry ( Led the Cowboys to their Superbowl Success in the early 90s). Another candidate for better coach than Belicheck is Chuck Noll ( Lead to 4 SB's in the 70s for the Steelers)

Belicheck is nothing compared to those Legends.


Ericsbucs371

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#28 : August 01, 2007, 09:26:10 PM

Anybody who is considers Belicheck is the greatest coach in the NFL is seriously losing their mind. I can think of 5 Coaches that have shown they are better than Belicheck. He has no PR skills. Im not saying you need that to be a coach but he dresses like a serious bum for a coach. Seeing that ripped up hoodie time after time says about his character. You see coaches like Jack Del Rio in suits and some others in atleast polos. But to name the 5 are Lombardi of course( Its not the BELICHECK TROPHY its the LOMBARDI!),Don Shula (THE perfect coach for the perfect season), Joe Gibbs ( Helped lead the Redskins to be a powerhouse during the 80s), Bill Walsh (created an entire O that has coaches today making plays influenced off that offense) and Tom Landry ( Led the Cowboys to their Superbowl Success in the early 90s). Another candidate for better coach than Belicheck is Chuck Noll ( Lead to 4 SB's in the 70s for the Steelers)

Belicheck is nothing compared to those Legends.
So you're saying that Belicheck can not be compared to the other 5 coaches you've named because he can't dress???????
Come on dude, do you even think about what you are typing???
I don't like to straight up put people down but you are an idiot. You know nothing about football.


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#29 : August 01, 2007, 09:28:06 PM

Anybody who is considers Belicheck is the greatest coach in the NFL is seriously losing their mind. I can think of 5 Coaches that have shown they are better than Belicheck. He has no PR skills. Im not saying you need that to be a coach but he dresses like a serious bum for a coach. Seeing that ripped up hoodie time after time says about his character. You see coaches like Jack Del Rio in suits and some others in atleast polos. But to name the 5 are Lombardi of course( Its not the BELICHECK TROPHY its the LOMBARDI!),Don Shula (THE perfect coach for the perfect season), Joe Gibbs ( Helped lead the Redskins to be a powerhouse during the 80s), Bill Walsh (created an entire O that has coaches today making plays influenced off that offense) and Tom Landry ( Led the Cowboys to their Superbowl Success in the early 90s). Another candidate for better coach than Belicheck is Chuck Noll ( Lead to 4 SB's in the 70s for the Steelers)

Belicheck is nothing compared to those Legends.
Who cares what a coach dresses like or how he talks to press? It's all about winning games. Shula, Landry,Gibbs, and Knoll all coached in a era with no salary cap against weak competition. Heck with the talent the Bucs had, if there was NO salary cap restraints they Bucs may have 2 or 3 Super Bowl titles. In this Salary cap era where it's hard to win consistently Belichick is head and shoulders above everyone.A coach that can win multiple Super Bowls in the salary cap era with as competitive as the NFL is should be called the best ever. What has Gibbs done since coming back to the NFL?

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