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Sgt.Shultz

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#30 : August 01, 2007, 09:37:46 PM

T that is true but if you disregard the salary cap then Belicheck comes close. He is a coach that got him made when these coaches proved they are worthy of being SB champs. The salary cap is important but if you can work with a team with no salary cap and still win a perfect season. That is pretty hard to do. Steelers came close but thats about it. Im going by what has been shown overall in the true days of football. the NFL has changed since then. The NFL is similar to change as much as NASCAR. As far as legends past and present I feel that if you look like an NFL coach and present yourself to be a winner then you do. Vince Lombardi would be rolling in his grave with the way these coaches dress. I know its not an issue but its all apart of being an NFL coach to make a legend.




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#31 : August 01, 2007, 09:48:27 PM

Anybody who is considers Belicheck is the greatest coach in the NFL is seriously losing their mind. I can think of 5 Coaches that have shown they are better than Belicheck. He has no PR skills. Im not saying you need that to be a coach but he dresses like a serious bum for a coach. Seeing that ripped up hoodie time after time says about his character. You see coaches like Jack Del Rio in suits and some others in atleast polos. But to name the 5 are Lombardi of course( Its not the BELICHECK TROPHY its the LOMBARDI!),Don Shula (THE perfect coach for the perfect season), Joe Gibbs ( Helped lead the Redskins to be a powerhouse during the 80s), Bill Walsh (created an entire O that has coaches today making plays influenced off that offense) and Tom Landry ( Led the Cowboys to their Superbowl Success in the early 90s). Another candidate for better coach than Belicheck is Chuck Noll ( Lead to 4 SB's in the 70s for the Steelers)

Belicheck is nothing compared to those Legends.
So you're saying that Belicheck can not be compared to the other 5 coaches you've named because he can't dress?

Come on dude, do you even think about what you are typing???

I don't like to straight up put people down but you are an idiot. You know nothing about football.



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John Galt?

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#32 : August 01, 2007, 10:29:44 PM

3 Superbowls, 5 AFC-CG appearances, 12-2 record in the playoffs.  I don't know about Greatest in History, a lot of apples v oranges comparisions. Best coach in the FA era, certainly.


Sgt.Shultz

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#33 : August 02, 2007, 12:59:09 AM

Screw you hate...you are scum like at the TBBBB. You act like your God and know everything. It take a real a-hole to mess with a guy on the internet..your a big man. Tell yourself that when you goto sleep at night. Helps you compensate for inferiorities you might have.

Eric...you forget that there is more to being an NFL coach...there is a whole persona. Belicheck doesnt have it because he chooses. Im not saying he isnt a good coach.Because he is. But he did NOT found the NFL the way it is today. He just wins games and does his job. Nothing real special about that. Guys like the ones I listed made a statement. They proved to why they have been recognized as HoF coaches. Belicheck has such a rude attitude towards the media. Im not saying you got to love them but nearly breaking somebodys camera is not class. And your statement about knowing nothing about football is just a highly discredited opinion. Anybody can say that. I can say you know nothing about football. But friggin get real. Belicheck is not the greatest coach in the NFL. He never will be.


Ericsbucs371

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#34 : August 02, 2007, 04:57:31 AM

Screw you hate...you are scum like at the TBBBB. You act like your God and know everything. It take a real a-hole to mess with a guy on the internet..your a big man. Tell yourself that when you goto sleep at night. Helps you compensate for inferiorities you might have.

Eric...you forget that there is more to being an NFL coach...there is a whole persona. Belicheck doesnt have it because he chooses. Im not saying he isnt a good coach.Because he is. But he did NOT found the NFL the way it is today. He just wins games and does his job. Nothing real special about that. Guys like the ones I listed made a statement. They proved to why they have been recognized as HoF coaches. Belicheck has such a rude attitude towards the media. Im not saying you got to love them but nearly breaking somebodys camera is not class. And your statement about knowing nothing about football is just a highly discredited opinion. Anybody can say that. I can say you know nothing about football. But friggin get real. Belicheck is not the greatest coach in the NFL. He never will be.
The media has nothing to do with coaching....NOTHING!!!  And you're trying to say that there is nothing special about 3 Superbowls, 5 AFC-CG appearances, 12-2 record in the playoffs. (thanks John Galt?) Thats not a statement??? He help build a dynasty in a time when the the salary cap and free agency makes it near impossible.
You just hate Belicheck and your letting that hate cloud your thoughts. I'm not saying that Belicheck is the greatest coach ever, but he is in the running.


dbtb135

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#35 : August 02, 2007, 05:02:33 AM

Didn't he take the Browns to the playoffs?

Didn't Butch Davis also do this?

dbtb135

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#36 : August 02, 2007, 05:19:05 AM

warren-thoses coaches did it in an era where the playing field was not level. There was no salary cap and not as mnay teams in the league, teams could keep their players for long period of times, also there were not other teams trying to hire your best assistants either.

Additions like the Houston Texans and the new Cleveland Browns make the league more competitive? I doubt it.

FA is a moot point to me. Yes, it does make for a more fair playing field, but it's the exact same for the Pats as it was for the Cowboys or Niners or Steelers or whomever you want to compare them to. They keep the main components of their championship team and let go the likes of Lawyer Milloy, Ted Washington, Willie McGinnest, David Patten, David Givens, and Deion Branch. Guys who were on the decline or weren't that good in the first place. While bringing in guys like Adalius Thomas, Rodney Harrison, Rosey Colvin, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss. The guys that matter want to stay because you are winning, and the guys out there that could matter want to play for you because you are winning. It's the same in that aspect as it ever was. To think it's so much harder for the Pats to keep their key players is kind of naive. They've had one problem with Asante Samuel 7 years into their run of competitiveness and dominance, and thats about it. Branch doesn't really count to me because, like the rest of their WRs, he wasn't even that great in New England and pretty average outside of it.

EDIT: I forgot about them losing Ty Law. But alas, he too was on the decline despite nice looking numbers in NY. He wasn't even a system guy though, he was one of the best corners in football who left when he was 31.

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#37 : August 02, 2007, 07:32:57 AM

3 Superbowls, 5 AFC-CG appearances, 12-2 record in the playoffs. I don't know about Greatest in History, a lot of apples v oranges comparisions. Best coach in the FA era, certainly.
I dont know about apples to oranges, maybe Granny Smith compared to red delicious--still both apples, but a little different. The great coaches of the yester years didnt have a lot of go on. Football went from being sock them in the mouth to more finesse like today. Back in the day it was better to form a good D and go for a good running back--now you have to be strong in every position to be competitive.

Back in the day there wasnt a huge difference in best and worst--it was pretty much who could hit the hardest and get the most yardage would win. Then Greats like Walsh, Landry, Noll came along and changed the dynamics of football.  The reason they were great was the INVENTED new ways of winning.  Would those teams win today?  Maybe, maybe not. At the time, teams didnt know how to beat it.  What makes Belicheck so amazing is he did it when teams do know how to stop a finesse offense, he has to compete with 31 other teams, and has to deal with salary cap. He didnt invent the offense or the defense, he learned how to win with it in todays NFL. In the creative sense-- no Belicheck is not the greatest. In winning, he's up there with some greats. Overall--he's not the greatest, but I would say currently he is the best coach in the NFL.

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#38 : August 02, 2007, 07:33:01 AM

warren-thoses coaches did it in an era where the playing field was not level. There was no salary cap and not as mnay teams in the league, teams could keep their players for long period of times, also there were not other teams trying to hire your best assistants either.


FA is a moot point to me.  

To think it's so much harder for the Pats to keep their key players is kind of naive.

Holy crap... WOW. Stupidity abound in this thread.

So I've now seen a clown say that Belicheck isnt one of the greatest because of his rudeness toward the media and because of his clothes. And now somebody actually is trying to pass off that Free Agency has no effect on how hard it is to keep a team together and continue to build and go to the Super Bowl.

I figured on a football board there would be people that know about football.


dbtb135

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#39 : August 02, 2007, 08:53:17 AM

Holy crap... WOW. Stupidity abound in this thread.

So I've now seen a clown say that Belicheck isnt one of the greatest because of his rudeness toward the media and because of his clothes. And now somebody actually is trying to pass off that Free Agency has no effect on how hard it is to keep a team together and continue to build and go to the Super Bowl.

I figured on a football board there would be people that know about football.

Well, thank you for the kindness my good sir!

I really, just really love your VERY selective reading. I never said it had NO effect on that, I EXPLAINED how it wasn't a huge deterrent in how Belicheck kept the most important pieces to that team. Maybe, just maybe, if you would read my whole post (and I know, that is so much to ask), and reply to what I had really said instead of taking two tidbits that reflect favorably on your view, again maybe you'd get what I was saying. It's a long shot, but it's worth a try!

WHO exactly has he lost of value to FA? HOW has FA negatively effected Belicheck's ability to field a contending ballclub. Not once did I argue that the guy wasn't a great talent evaluator or that he wasn't almost flawless at developing talent. But how, pray tell, has FA NOTABLY HINDERED him? Anything, anything at all would be helpful. The guys there want to win, the guys that come in want to win. The Pats have managed their cap well, and have been helped by guys like Brady who takes less than his few peers when he could go out and make considerably more. Aside from that, can you really give the credit of a greatly managed cap and players taking easily less than market value to Belicheck? To my knowledge, he's not in contract negotiations from either the player or the team standpoint.

Maybe if the Pats had lost a key player, any one of them, or even had a threat to do so up until now, then the whole "FA challenge" might come into play. But up until now, their biggest loss is a WR who average 52 yards a game and 3.5 TDs per year with them. Matt Light, Richard Seymour, Tom Brady, Tedy Bruschi. Nope, they've had very little trouble signing those guys.

It's not that it's this easy for every team, but at the same time, when you make it out to be this huge obstacle that they've had very little trouble with, it doesn't make sense. They do a good job of managing the cap, but when you've got guys taking less to play there, it's a little easier than it is for say...Arizona who guys aren't going to take reduced pay to go to.

Once again, look at the players they've gained through FA and look at the players they've lost. Tell me that it's not incredibly one-sided. If you're going to make it out to be this huge hurdle for Bill, tell me, who have they lost? Who has threatened to go? Who is the invaluable piece that walked away? Who was even the better than marginal talent that was a casualty to that tough cap the Patriots have to adhere to?

They lost DEION friggin BRANCH and an old Ty Law and gained Rosevelt Colvin in his prime, coming off TWO 10+ sack years with the Bears AND possible future HOFer RODNEY HARRISON. So not only were they able to keep their key players, while discarding guys who proved to be ineffective in their very near future, but they also ADDED great quality guys like Harrison and Colvin, and this season crowned jewel of the FA class, Adalius Thomas. How has the cap inhibited them any now? What, they couldn't go out and sign Nate Clements too?

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#40 : August 02, 2007, 05:51:49 PM

I don't think any coach in the "modern era" or before, is better than Bill Walsh. He changed the game on both sides of the ball.

As far as leaders go, Bill Belichek deserves high consideration as being a great one, but him being the best "coach" of all time is laughable.

See Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Stram, Walsh, Shula, Gibbs, Parcells(who groomed Belichek), Vermiel, Dungy, Cowher, and even Holmgren.

Before you say Belichek, remember his team has been built around a great QB. All coaches, even bad ones, will look great with that QB. See Charley Wiess.


P.S. Not saying Charley Wiess is a bad coach, but did anyone know his name before Tom Brady put him on the map?

There are no great coches without great players. Who is the 'greatest ever' is debateable. But the top 5 (in no particular order)must contain the names Lombardi, Walsh, Belichek, Gibbs (even though he has recently hurt his legacy -- 3 rings w/ 3 QBs is a strong resume), and Paul Brown. The next group would start with Halas...



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#41 : August 02, 2007, 05:59:58 PM

Screw you hate...you are scum like at the TBBBB. You act like your God and know everything. It take a real a-hole to mess with a guy on the internet..your a big man. Tell yourself that when you goto sleep at night. Helps you compensate for inferiorities you might have.

OUCH!!!

Ritalin, anyone?

Bucs N Beers

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#42 : August 02, 2007, 07:21:07 PM

You wanna crown 'em? Well then crown their arses.


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#43 : August 02, 2007, 11:47:47 PM

They have been really really good for awhile now, but I think it's time for them to start to- lose, choke, fall apart, quit, fight each other, come in last and I guess thats about it... for now.

Ericsbucs371

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#44 : August 02, 2007, 11:51:06 PM

They have been really really good for awhile now, but I think it's time for them to start to- lose, choke, fall apart, quit, fight each other, come in last and I guess thats about it... for now.
When a player starts down this path, they will get rid of that player. As long as its not Brady they will stay near the top of the NFL.

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