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#75 : August 06, 2007, 11:35:22 PM

My point was, in recent years Cowher, Holmgren and Shanahan (among ogthers these are just comparable names) have gone from the highest of highgs to having one foot out the door and the town they work in calling for their heads.

Fans are fickle, I guess I live in Tampa and this is all I see so I get down on  our fans. I just think if people stop and think they would realzie that we all hate losing but the answer isnt always to fire the coach. The coach isnt the problem, and just like with the other guys I mentiooned great coaches always rise to the top.

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#76 : August 06, 2007, 11:39:37 PM

Tampa fans and media as a whole are an embarrassment. Very fickle, bandwagon jumping turncoats with no loyalty. Just think if Bill Cowher wouldve been run out of Pittsburgh after going 51-44 during a 6 year span from 1998-2003 where he suffered 3 losing seasons and went 2-2 in t he playoffs. In fact prior to winning the SB Cowher had an 8-9 record in the playoffs with 0 super bowl wins in 13 years in Pitt
You do realize that Cowhere had already established winning in Pittsburght during those "down" years when in all reality Gruden's "down years" have been WAY worse than Cowher's "down years".

No one wants to hear that truth. To compare Gruden and Cowher is just not right.

The truth is Cowher won 1 superbowl in 15 years. The truth is Cowher had a losing playoff record after 13 years in Pittsburgh. How does the truth feel? SO many people wnat to take away Grudens division championship 2 years ago because he didnt win a playoff game. Well Cowher never did anything in the playoffs but lose. Cowher was on the hot seat just as bad, or even worse than Gruden is right now, back in 2004.

Do you realize Cowher only one more than 1 playoff game in a season once in his first 13 years in PItt?


From 1998-2003 Cowher misse dthe playoffs 4 times out of 6


Im not inventing these nmbers. This stuff really happened



Yes these numbers which you omitted from the years before the ones you quoted.
992 - went 11-5, had home-field advantage through playoffs, Lost 1st playoff game to Buffalo

1993 - went 9-7, was a wild card team and lost 1st playoff game in Kansas City

1994 - went 12-4 and had home field advantage through playoffs, lost in AFC title game to Chargers

1995 - went 11-5 and were the #2 seed in AFC playoffs, Lost in SuperBowl XXX to Dallas

1996 - went 10-6 and were the #3 seed in playoffs, lost in Divisional round in New England

1997 - went 11-5 and were the #2 seed in AFC playoffs, Lost in AFC title game to Denver
So. yes he did struggle for a few years but his numbers had preserved that. He wasn't handed a playoff team, as a matter of fact the team finished 7-9 the year before. Yes THESE numbers don't lie. Your numbers were accurate but they did not tell the whole story. By the way.. that 94 season if Tim McKyer could cover anyone the Steelers would have been in that superbowl. So now.. you were comparing Gruden to Cowher?

I think the position is that he (Cowher) did have the early success your post focuses on, but that was followed by 3 straight failures to make it to the playoffs. Then he had two good years followed by a 6-10 season...

kinda similar...to me anyway...
Not really close. He managed to build the team from a losing team, not the other way around.


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#77 : August 06, 2007, 11:43:00 PM

Cowher has a better winning foundation to brag on.  Plus his "mean" face is on par with Grudens, IMO.  And Cowher spits.




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#78 : August 06, 2007, 11:46:31 PM

O do you mean like Gruden did in Oakland? DOnt fault the man because he took over THIS team when it was at the end of it's peak and headed for an ageing decline with no help form the cap and a depletion of draft picks. I realize that all of these setbacks were necessary to win that superbowl, but I wont blame Gruden for suffering through these times when everyone shouldve seen it coming

When Gruden took over in Oakland he took over a 4-12 team. Cowher took over a 7-9 team in Pitt who 2 years before he got there wa sin the playoffs. Gruden took Oakland from 4-12, and 3 years later they had teh most feared offense in football and were a perennial super bowol contender.

Its not Grudens fault that this particular team he took over was at its peak when he took over, you cant hold that against him

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#79 : August 06, 2007, 11:48:01 PM

Its not Grudens fault that this particular team he took over was at its peak when he took over, you cant hold that against him
I for one, do not.

The Lombardi cured me of any Buffalo Bill disease I might have acquired...


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#80 : August 06, 2007, 11:51:03 PM

Sometimes life isn't fair. You cannot fire the entire team so you have to escort the people who brought in said team. Either way this is his year and if he fails then he is gone. If he actually learned from past mistakes then he stays and he is the coach of my team. Either way I won't hate the guy.


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#81 : August 06, 2007, 11:53:53 PM

Sometimes life isn't fair. You cannot fire the entire team so you have to escort the people who brought in said team. Either way this is his year and if he fails then he is gone. If he actually learned from past mistakes then he stays and he is the coach of my team. Either way I won't hate the guy.
Very good post.


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#82 : August 07, 2007, 01:31:29 AM

Cowher has a better winning foundation to brag on.

You cannot judge Gruden just on the basis of the Buc years - he did have tremendous success rebuilding a certain franchise in Oakland

Plus his "mean" face is on par with Grudens, IMO. And Cowher spits.

LOL

So I guess it's proved - Gruden is Cowher...

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#83 : August 07, 2007, 02:57:28 PM

Sorry I had to resort to actual numbers to prove you wrong, but this year will tell the difference as to whether or not Gruden knows what the hell he is doing and I will save my judgement until after the 2nd week of this upcoming season.

Really?  I think you've already made your judgement....



Nope.. because I understand that McKay screwed us and jumped ship like a thief in the night.But last year we were completely out from under everything. This year we have had several drafts worth of full picks (More than enough to turn this around) and this is where he gets judged.

Who are you, and when did you steal Corpse's account?

I'd actually like to see Gruden get 08 as well, but I can see he needs to show something this year.  I wouldn't say playoffs or bust, but we need to be showing a solid product.  If we don't, well, getting 1 more draft isn't going to propel us into the playoffs, and I expect us to be there, making noise, in 08. 

We're still short on talent here, but not so much that we can accept another crap year.



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#84 : August 07, 2007, 03:39:25 PM

The problem with Rice and these other guys is they listen to their agents. The Bucs dont walk up to Rice on the field and ask if he will take a cut. They talk to the agent and apparently the agent just doesnt know the market and he screwed Rice up. Rice swallowed the agents crap about his value.

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#85 : August 08, 2007, 02:21:32 AM

Who are you, and when did you steal Corpse's account?

I must admit to being shocked by Corpses reply as well!

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#86 : August 08, 2007, 04:03:02 AM

Booger and Phillips sure did look great at the time. They rolled the dice on the young players and failed. It sucks, but it happens. At least Phillips still has the potential, especially with Morris back. I just miss Sapp, especially after the year he had last year. We could have used that production at the DT spot, and he'd be better than anyone we have now at UT.
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