Quick Hits- Lucas 1st string Center?, Joseph blowing people up!!!!!

[alldaway]

Considering the potential 1st string tackles are Wyms (2nd day pick), Hovan (cast off), Sims (cast off), and Haye (2nd day pick), I'd hope our 1st round guard is dominating them

Hovan should be dominated becuase he is a cast off?  Somebody forgot to tell him that the last two years....

[Feel Real Good]

Considering the potential 1st string tackles are Wyms (2nd day pick), Hovan (cast off), Sims (cast off), and Haye (2nd day pick), I'd hope our 1st round guard is dominating them

Hovan should be dominated becuase he is a cast off?  Somebody forgot to tell him that the last two years....

Hovan is solid but he's a tier two player at best. If Joseph is who we want him to be, we should be able to count the number of tackles who can go toe-to-toe with him on one hand.

[cheveliar]

I forgot to mention Hovan.  He's always in the mix and mixing it up well.  good one ADW...he's a guy you tend to take for granted because he brings it all the time and you just expect that...

[DanTurksGhost]

Everything I've ever seen or heard about Joseph tells me that unless something strange happens, he'll be among the very best OG's in the league.

[alldaway]

Hovan is solid but he's a tier two player at best

We will have to agree to disagree.

Hovan was drafted in the first round and has been productive in his career even before coming to Tampa.  Not sure how Hovan is a tier two player honestly.

[Feel Real Good]

Hovan is solid but he's a tier two player at best

We will have to agree to disagree.

Hovan was drafted in the first round and has been productive in his career even before coming to Tampa. Not sure how Hovan is a tier two player honestly.

And when the team that spent a 1st on you says don't let the door hit you on the way out you may have a problem. Tier 1 players aren't just "productive." They are dominant. And those are the only kind of players who should be giving Joseph trouble. Guys like Rod Coleman, Casey Hampton, Tommie Harris, John Henderson, Kris Jenkins in his prime, Warren Sapp, Marcus Stroud, Vince Wilfork, Jamal Williams, Kevin Williams, and Pat Williams.

[alldaway]

And when the team that spent a 1st on you says don't let the door hit you on the way out you may have a problem

When a team lets a player go becuase they think he is a bust, but ends up turning their career around that does not say much about that teams ability to judge/coach talent.

The Vikes defensive coaching staff has been poor for quite a while.  Only with Tomlin last year did the Vikes start to realize their potential they had on their D.

[Feel Real Good]

And when the team that spent a 1st on you says don't let the door hit you on the way out you may have a problem

When a team lets a player go becuase they think he is a bust, but ends up turning their career around that does not say much about that teams ability to judge/coach talent.

The Vikes defensive coaching staff has been poor for quite a while.  Only with Tomlin last year did the Vikes start to realize their potential they had on their D.

He had 20 tackles in 13 games in 2004 and 27 tackles in 16 games in 2003 with the Vikings. That's sub-Booger production. They were probably right to dump him. But to my main point, do you think Hovan belongs on the list of players I named?

[rowdie]

The team didn't think he was a bust. He performed really well right up untill Matt Millan tried to ruin his career.  Chris probably told matt he was going to Hell.  In anycase, noone is busy waiting for Matt to finally get fired so they can hire him as head scout.

[DanTurksGhost]

NT and UT are two different positions and not really well-suited to a direct comparison.

[John Galt?]

Hovan is solid but he's a tier two player at best

We will have to agree to disagree.

Hovan was drafted in the first round and has been productive in his career even before coming to Tampa. Not sure how Hovan is a tier two player honestly.

And when the team that spent a 1st on you says don't let the door hit you on the way out you may have a problem. 

So Steve Young, Rich Gannon, Brett Favre are second tier?

[Feel Real Good]

NT and UT are two different positions and not really well-suited to a direct comparison.

UT: Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris, Kris Jenkins in his prime, Warren Sapp, Marcus Stroud, and Kevin Williams.

NT: Casey Hampton, John Henderson, Vince Wilfork, Jamal Williams, and Pat Williams.

[Boid Fink]

Not to get off base here, but did a few posts/topics headers get deleted for some reason?

[alldaway]

He had 20 tackles in 13 games in 2004 and 27 tackles in 16 games in 2003 with the Vikings. That's sub-Booger production. They were probably right to dump him. But to my main point, do you think Hovan belongs on the list of players I named?

Not convinced.

Hovan was asked to play out of position and play as a full time two gap defender in 2003 and 2004.   Which explains why those last two years he was not so productive.  Booger played in a system and a position tailor made to play to his strengths and still was not productive.  That is why I do not buy the Booger analogy with Hovan.  

They were probably right to dump him.

If they were right to dump him explain his resurgence in Tampa?

But to my main point, do you think Hovan belongs on the list of players I named?

I have problems with your definition of how you rank players in two ways.

1. As (John Galt?) has been pointed out a cast off is automatically considered tier two?  

2. You seem to lump the elite players in tier one and all the rest are tier two.  I do not agree with such a ranking system with only two tiers.  

[rowdie]

2. You seem to lump the elite players in tier one and all the rest are tier two.  I do not agree with such a ranking system with only two tiers. 

He has more tiers then that as he says Hovan is "At best tier two."   It's an odd negative spin pointing to the idea he really thinks Hovan is a tier 3 player but wouldnt' say that on a bucs board.  While I find nothing particularly wrong with a tier two ranking wording it as "at best" seems an odd choice as you could just as easily say "at worst tier two"