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DanTurksGhost

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« #75 : August 16, 2007, 10:34:03 AM »

Prefer,

Does anyone really deserve that much credit for drafting Lynch, Sapp, and Brooks? A 10 year old could have seen that Brooks and Sapp were All Pro caliber. Sapp was drafted because he was a pot head and slipped. His talent was never a question. Brooks dominated at FSU. Wyche may get the credit, but he won't get much from me.

Ah, if you only knew the whole truth behind that draft, Wyche would get much more of your credit, but the REAL guy who deserves a pat on the back in getting Brooks in here is Rusty Tillman. He begged Sam to tell Rich to trade back into the first round to get him, despite the objections of the Bucs scouting department. Rusty finally convinced Sam that Brooks was the next Rufus Porter, and the rest is history.

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« #76 : August 16, 2007, 10:38:08 AM »

Ahhhh... the old "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.

So Gruden won with Dungy's team against Callahan who was there with Gruden's team.  Right?  Either way you look at it, Gruden put a team in the Super Bowl that year.  Maybe 2...

The Gruden haters never seem to mention that.  


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« #77 : August 16, 2007, 10:41:00 AM »

The problem I have with that arguement is that Gannon and the Raiders would know Gruden's offense as well. Gruden did change it up a little a bit unlike Callahan. But at the end of the day it was practically the same offense and they could not stop the Bucs. The Bucs O was firing on all cylinders that day. The blocking was there and Pittman had probably a career game.

I completely agree, All da way. My point wasn't to down play Gruden's abilities or his game plan. Pittman had a great day and, yes, the offensive line was great. In the end, maybe Gruden, Dungy, and McKay deserve very little credit and Monte deserves a ton. Who knows.

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« #78 : August 16, 2007, 10:42:52 AM »

Also, what kind of an advantage was it for Gruden to be playing the team (in the Super Bowl) he coached the previous year that was esentially running the same system he created?

It wasn't Gruden's fault the Raiders were in the Super Bowl against his Buccaneers.  Or was it?  How about giving Gruden some credit for building a team in Oakland that even a guy like Callahan (who isn't much of a head coach) could take to the Super Bowl.  


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« #79 : August 16, 2007, 10:46:36 AM »

I completely agree, All da way. My point wasn't to down play Gruden's abilities or his game plan. Pittman had a great day and, yes, the offensive line was great. In the end, maybe Gruden, Dungy, and McKay deserve very little credit and Monte deserves a ton. Who knows.

In my honest opinion, Monte deserves most of the credit.  He's the constant.  Dungy has left and his team in Indy hasn't impressed on defense.   Gruden's offense hasn't shown much consistency since arriving in Tampa.

With the word "genius" thrown around so much, I'd much rather put that moniker on Monte rather than Dungy, Gruden, etc.  Afterall, out of anyone, Monte is the only one who's been consistent.


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« #80 : August 16, 2007, 10:49:43 AM »

Ahhhh... the old "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.

So Gruden won with Dungy's team against Callahan who was there with Gruden's team.  Right?  Either way you look at it, Gruden put a team in the Super Bowl that year.  Maybe 2...

The Gruden haters never seem to mention that.  


Where did I say that Gruden won with Dungy's team (I am assuming you were referring to my post)? Re-read it my friend. I simply stated that the Super Bowl was a dream match up. How can anyone disagree with that? Also, your comment saying Gruden "possibly put two" in the Super Bowl is telling. You criticize others for saying Gruden won with Dungy's team (not my words), yet you feel justified in saying Callahan won with Grudens team. Talk about being a hypocrite. Wow.

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« #81 : August 16, 2007, 10:52:27 AM »

I completely agree, All da way. My point wasn't to down play Gruden's abilities or his game plan. Pittman had a great day and, yes, the offensive line was great. In the end, maybe Gruden, Dungy, and McKay deserve very little credit and Monte deserves a ton. Who knows.

In my honest opinion, Monte deserves most of the credit. He's the constant. Dungy has left and his team in Indy hasn't impressed on defense. Gruden's offense hasn't shown much consistency since arriving in Tampa.

With the word "genius" thrown around so much, I'd much rather put that moniker on Monte rather than Dungy, Gruden, etc. Afterall, out of anyone, Monte is the only one who's been consistent.

I couldn't agree more. At the end of the day I think Dungy and Gruden are both very good coaches albeit in different ways. Monte, though, is just plain SOLID.

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« #82 : August 16, 2007, 10:56:31 AM »

Ahhhh... the old "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.

So Gruden won with Dungy's team against Callahan who was there with Gruden's team.  Right?  Either way you look at it, Gruden put a team in the Super Bowl that year.  Maybe 2...

The Gruden haters never seem to mention that.  


Where did I say that Gruden won with Dungy's team (I am assuming you were referring to my post)? Re-read it my friend. I simply stated that the Super Bowl was a dream match up. How can anyone disagree with that? Also, your comment saying Gruden "possibly put two" in the Super Bowl is telling. You criticize others for saying Gruden won with Dungy's team (not my words), yet you feel justified in saying Callahan won with Grudens team. Talk about being a hypocrite. Wow.

That wasn't directed to you.  And my comparison to Callahan with Gruden's team is just playing devil's advocate.

I completely disagree with the "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.  I ALWAYS think any kind of argument like that is stupid.  Because its shot down with one question --- Well then why didn't Dungy win with Dungy's team?

And I agree that the Super Bowl was a dream matchup.  But its not anyone's fault Gruden got to face his former team.  


Snook

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« #83 : August 16, 2007, 11:02:32 AM »

Monte, though, is just plain SOLID.

Solid is an understatement.


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« #84 : August 16, 2007, 11:14:31 AM »

Ahhhh... the old "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.

So Gruden won with Dungy's team against Callahan who was there with Gruden's team.  Right?  Either way you look at it, Gruden put a team in the Super Bowl that year.  Maybe 2...

The Gruden haters never seem to mention that. 


Where did I say that Gruden won with Dungy's team (I am assuming you were referring to my post)? Re-read it my friend. I simply stated that the Super Bowl was a dream match up. How can anyone disagree with that? Also, your comment saying Gruden "possibly put two" in the Super Bowl is telling. You criticize others for saying Gruden won with Dungy's team (not my words), yet you feel justified in saying Callahan won with Grudens team. Talk about being a hypocrite. Wow.

That wasn't directed to you.  And my comparison to Callahan with Gruden's team is just playing devil's advocate.

I completely disagree with the "Gruden won with Dungy's team" argument.  I ALWAYS think any kind of argument like that is stupid.  Because its shot down with one question --- Well then why didn't Dungy win with Dungy's team?

And I agree that the Super Bowl was a dream matchup.  But its not anyone's fault Gruden got to face his former team. 

Snook....I agree. Gruden shouldn't apologize for the match up. Anyone would want any advantage they could get going into a big game. I was ecstatic about playing the Raiders for that very reason (as I am sure most Buc fans were). It is no secret that I am a big Dungy fan. I loved his philosophy on personnel (good players AND solid citizens) and I admire the way he lives his life. I, like any Buc fan, was angry with him for not hiring a top notch (or even average) Offensive Coordinator. If we had, I truly believe we would have won multiple Super Bowls and the name Dungy would have been mentioned in the same sentence with Walsh, Gibbs, Knoll, etc. Oh, what could have been!!! Anyway, I support Gruden, but I am not enamored with him like some on this board. I just miss being "feared" around the league. Remember those days when nobody wanted to play us (even with a bad offense)? Those were good days.

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« #85 : August 16, 2007, 11:22:41 AM »

And I agree that the Super Bowl was a dream matchup. But its not anyone's fault Gruden got to face his former team.

Snook....I agree. Gruden shouldn't apologize for the match up. Anyone would want any advantage they could get going into a big game. I was ecstatic about playing the Raiders for that very reason (as I am sure most Buc fans were). It is no secret that I am a big Dungy fan. I loved his philosophy on personnel (good players AND solid citizens) and I admire the way he lives his life. I, like any Buc fan, was angry with him for not hiring a top notch (or even average) Offensive Coordinator. If we had, I truly believe we would have won multiple Super Bowls and the name Dungy would have been mentioned in the same sentence with Walsh, Gibbs, Knoll, etc. Oh, what could have been!!! Anyway, I support Gruden, but I am not enamored with him like some on this board. I just miss being "feared" around the league. Remember those days when nobody wanted to play us (even with a bad offense)? Those were good days.
It wasn't a dream match up. The Bucs were a lot better team. The Raiders and the AFC as a whole wasn't that good that year. The game against the Eagles was the de facto Super Bowl. Had Philly have beat Tampa, I firmly believe they would have put a hurting on Oakland, too. And regarding Coach Dungy's "philosophy" on personnel, two players under contract with the Colts have been arrested just in 2007.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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« #86 : August 16, 2007, 12:28:14 PM »

Give me a break, dude. Because Dungy has had two players arrested means that his philosophy is a sham? You must have a serious axe to grind to say something that stupid. Also, it WAS a dream match up. Yes, the Bucs were better, but for Gruden to be able to face the system he created was a big plus for us.
Two different Colts players were arrested in 2006 (Cato June and Vincent Burns), three were arrested in 2005 (Nick Harper, Mike Doss, and Montae Reagor), and one other player was arrested in 2004 and 2003. Dungy may say he wants character, but he hasn't gotten any better results than most of the rest of the league.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Snook

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« #87 : August 16, 2007, 02:12:47 PM »

Don't forget about McKay and his inefficient "Falcon filter".  That's a joke.


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« #88 : August 17, 2007, 03:36:28 PM »

Give me a break, dude. Because Dungy has had two players arrested means that his philosophy is a sham? You must have a serious axe to grind to say something that stupid. Also, it WAS a dream match up. Yes, the Bucs were better, but for Gruden to be able to face the system he created was a big plus for us.
Two different Colts players were arrested in 2006 (Cato June and Vincent Burns), three were arrested in 2005 (Nick Harper, Mike Doss, and Montae Reagor), and one other player was arrested in 2004 and 2003. Dungy may say he wants character, but he hasn't gotten any better results than most of the rest of the league.

How does Dungy's beliefs correlate to the behavior of the players? I stated that I liked HIS philosophy!!! I didn't say that his players behaved any better than others. It boggles my mind that you would even argue this point. You must really dislike Dungy. Wow.
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