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#30 : August 15, 2007, 08:37:50 PM

Even if he gets the axe here, he won't be on the market long.

Your point? 

Dungy wasn't on the market long either..... but it was surely time for him to leave here.

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#31 : August 15, 2007, 08:43:04 PM

alot of coaches have trouble with adversity. Its hard to come back from an 0-4 record when you have a rookie running your offense. Happened the last time we had a losing record. Its tough to overcome. Next time a starting QB goes down you watch what happens to that team. Ussually its not good. Allthough the Pats won the SB with Brady as the backup QB but then won 2 more SBs. So I find it difficult for any coach who loses starters especcially the starting QB. It might not go different with Simms in there but it doesnt hurt he has more experience than a rookie.

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#32 : August 15, 2007, 08:48:54 PM

I am listening to WDAE and SR is talking about the upcoming season. He made a comment about Gruden that I found interesting. He says when the Buccs are healthy they do well BUT Gruden doesn't seem to be capable of turning things around when things start to go wrong, i.e injuries. He also went on to say Dungy was pretty good at dealing with adversity.

In my book a manager that can't handle changing circumstances is not a very good manager.....and that goes for any industry.

DISCUSS


** Disclaimer - the above thoughts are SR's not mine.

In '05 the starting QB went down for the season, and a kid with only 1 start under his belt was the replacement. Also, the rookie sensation RB was hurt for several games. The team finished 7-4 and won the division.  i'd say that's handling adversity pretty well.


Ya Id say the 05 season Gruden showed some adversity.

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#33 : August 15, 2007, 09:14:05 PM

Defense wins division titles.  Offense win conference championships.    It's far easier to build a strong defense than it is to construct a powerhouse offense.   

02 and 05 both had stellar defense.   The adversity stuff is ka ka.

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#34 : August 15, 2007, 10:06:21 PM

Defense wins division titles. Offense win conference championships. It's far easier to build a strong defense than it is to construct a powerhouse offense.

02 and 05 both had stellar defense. The adversity stuff is ka ka.

good counter point.


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#35 : August 15, 2007, 10:20:19 PM

IMO, when your best guys are on the sidelines watching even the best manager can't perform up to par!!





I.E Baseball, the Mets fans believe if they had Pedro Martinez this whole season they would be 10+ games ahead of the NL East....but IMO, If the Braves had Chipper Jones in the 28 games he's missed since June 1st he'd be the leading NL MVP candidate.

In Chipper's case his .339 19 HR's and 67 RBI's to this date would look more like .325 25 HR's and 85+ RBI's if he was healthy in June...and who knows with a 162 games from Chipper and Pedro both the Mets and Braves would have 70 wins right now.....the only thing I can guarantee is if Andruw Jones was batting more like .270 instead of .213 the Braves would have close to 80 wins right now...

Back to football.....Gruden looks like he can't handle the injuries because of this teams lack of talented depth the last 4 seasons....Cap room, poor drafting and no blue chip free agent signings (See Cap Room) have all had a hand in these circumstances....Grudens a winner, just give him the money and talent....see 2002 and his progressions with "The Bull" and the 23 signed free agents like Keenan McCardell, Mike Pittman, Roman Oben, Ken Dilger, and Joe Jurevicious who lended a huge hand in winning our trophey. It is what it is.




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#36 : August 15, 2007, 11:30:29 PM

Hate, I'd venture to say most teams that start the season 1-4 are pretty much done for the year as far as playoffs are concerned. Unless that team happens to be in the NFC North and plays all games out of the division to start with. I think it's an unfair advantage that the Bears -- for all intents and purposes -- get to start the season out 6-0 before the first game even begins. As long as home-field advantage is determined by record only, the road to the Super Bowl likely goes through Chicago.
They break the Super Bowl loser jinx this year because that division is such a joke.


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#37 : August 16, 2007, 08:17:03 AM

How did everyone feel on January 26, 2003. In contrast, how did you feel on the following dates:

January 12, 2001?
December 31, 2000?
January 23, 2000?

That's the past. Brian Billick has been on the hot seat numerous times since delivering a Super Bowl to Baltimore, George Seifert eventually wasn't the man in San Francisco despite his championships, and Tom Flores couldn't coach forever in Oakland. A Super Bowl is not a lifetime contract.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#38 : August 16, 2007, 08:33:51 AM

Not to defend Gruden, but losing your starting QB (which by no means were great QB's) 2 years in a row is harder to overcome than the Pat's losing a CB or S.
If you look at the best teams in the last few years (say SB teams winners or losers) and compare them to our team in the last few years its not fair to compare.

Colts, Pats, Seahawks, Rams, Titans all had much better QB's than Gruden has had, in fact we have not had a QB as good as a 2002 Brad Johnson, including a 2003 Brad johnson !

I don't like our system I find it boring and I don't like Gruden, sorry but I just don't get him and don't like him, but I would not say he is more or less of a HC that can build a team than Dungy or any other coach. I think you have to look at the importance of the QB. A great & healthy QB is the most important part of a team, and that is the thing Gruden has never had here.

Its not his fault the ownership lets him have so much influance on personel, in his mind he is always right, every HC  thinks his was in the best way. I don't think its the coaches job to "build" a team with total autonomy, I think at most it should be 30% HC 20% OC, DC, Scouts and other coaches and 50% GM when it comes to personel. I think the problem is Gruden calls all the shots, and Allen just  crunches the numbers and gets to play around with utility players and such. If I am wrong on that then I guess its just Grudens fault. Who knows.



I've been reading these boards a lot and this is the first post that coorelates the QB position and Gruden's record. I've thought this all along but whenever I mention it I get the retort , "Just excuses." Good post UMguy1999. A lot of logic there.

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#39 : August 16, 2007, 08:47:42 AM

I don't like our system I find it boring

This has to be the joke of the century.    Either that or you are very young and haven't seen Buc offenses in the past.   This system and Sam Wyche's offense are the only 2 systems we've ever had that were not 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of offenses.    I can still remember people complaining about how John McKay ran the ball too much.   I agree with that though.  McKay ran the ball so often that it was a boring tedium.    I used to be able to predict our play call almost every play when we had McKay, Bennett, Perkins, and Dungy as head coaches.    Gruden keeps me guessing all the time.   His play calls are really great at times, but the execution has been lacking.   Sure we could revert to our old predictable offenses of the past to simplify things.   But I'd rather strive for greatness and fail than accept mediocrity with a simple, predictable offense.

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#40 : August 16, 2007, 08:55:25 AM

I don't like our system I find it boring

This has to be the joke of the century. Either that or you are very young and haven't seen Buc offenses in the past. This system and Sam Wyche's offense are the only 2 systems we've ever had that were not 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of offenses. I can still remember people complaining about how John McKay ran the ball too much. I agree with that though. McKay ran the ball so often that it was a boring tedium. I used to be able to predict our play call almost every play when we had McKay, Bennett, Perkins, and Dungy as head coaches. Gruden keeps me guessing all the time. His play calls are really great at times, but the execution has been lacking. Sure we could revert to our old predictable offenses of the past to simplify things. But I'd rather strive for greatness and fail than accept mediocrity with a simple, predictable offense.
Just for the record the Dungy/Steckel combo in 2000 scored more points than any Gruden team.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#41 : August 16, 2007, 09:19:05 AM

I don't like our system I find it boring

This has to be the joke of the century. Either that or you are very young and haven't seen Buc offenses in the past. This system and Sam Wyche's offense are the only 2 systems we've ever had that were not 3 yards and a cloud of dust type of offenses. I can still remember people complaining about how John McKay ran the ball too much. I agree with that though. McKay ran the ball so often that it was a boring tedium. I used to be able to predict our play call almost every play when we had McKay, Bennett, Perkins, and Dungy as head coaches. Gruden keeps me guessing all the time. His play calls are really great at times, but the execution has been lacking. Sure we could revert to our old predictable offenses of the past to simplify things. But I'd rather strive for greatness and fail than accept mediocrity with a simple, predictable offense.
Just for the record the Dungy/Steckel combo in 2000 scored more points than any Gruden team.


That's the only thing that matters.  I don't care if Gruden's offense play calling is 'flashy' or keeps me guessing.  He can run nothing but draw plays for all I care, just score 6. 




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#42 : August 16, 2007, 09:37:47 AM

Quote
Just for the record the Dungy/Steckel combo in 2000 scored more points than any Gruden team.

Dungy's name does not belong with Steckel.


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#43 : August 16, 2007, 09:44:45 AM

As Gruden's doesn't belong with Kiffin, who was primary reason we won in 02 and 05.

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#44 : August 16, 2007, 09:54:21 AM

Dungy not only hated Steckel's playcalling, but he had the nerve to fire him after one year.  One could argue Tony's career may have ended up being vastly different if he let Steckel stay.

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