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1sparkybuc

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: August 18, 2007, 03:02:31 PM

......and how many SBs does he even reach, forget about winning?

Take Bart Starr away from Vincent Lombardi and what name do you see on the championship trophy?

Most great coaches are known for their ties to one great quarterback. A few are fortunate enough to have two or three in their career.

My impression is that Gruden will always be thought of first with Rich Gannon, and Brad Johnson as an afterthought.

Brad Johnson will never be considered a great QB. We could not have won the SB without him, but he will never be viewed as anything more than a journeyman. Gruden deserves the description of great because he won fifteen games without any superstar players on his offense. I can't imagine Johnson winning a SB with any other coach. I can imagine Gruden winning another SB with another QB. If he had remained in Oakland, Gannon would be wearing a ring right now. If he had gone to the Colts, Manning would have more than one.

I believe we have a really great HC. The trophies should confirm that. I also believe the talent draught is over for most positions on this team. We still need a few holes filled, but 2007 will be a winning season and the haters will be silenced. I can't wait.

dr3z

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#1 : August 18, 2007, 03:17:59 PM

Take Trent Dilfer away from Brian Billick..............

Sgt.Shultz

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#2 : August 18, 2007, 04:08:43 PM

Take Ben Rothlisberger from Bill Cowher...........


dalbuc

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#3 : August 18, 2007, 05:16:02 PM

Brad Johnson will never be considered a great QB. We could not have won the SB without him, but he will never be viewed as anything more than a journeyman.

If he had remained in Oakland, Gannon would be wearing a ring right now. If he had gone to the Colts, Manning would have more than one.

Brad was a 2 time pro bowler- and only one of those under Gruden. He's a career 62% passer with a TD:INT ratio better than Aikman or Elway. Let's not run Brad down, he was a very good NFL QB and the only reason the "journeyman" label gets hung on him is because he was drafted in the 12th round. He's not a bad QB, he's not even an average QB. He's a darn good QB and was for a long time. Less than Brad won with Jon than that Jon couldn't come close without Brad.

Frankly, there's no proof Gannon would be wearing a ring. The offense got better after Gruden left and Gruden never won the big game in OAK- in fact his two seasons prior to Tampa featured embarrassing losses where the Faders hung a total of 16 points on the board in 120 minutes of playoff football. At the time Callhan was credited with doing for OAK what Gruden did with us- win the big game and push the team over the top.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

zed

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#4 : August 18, 2007, 05:26:35 PM

Take Brady away from Belichick and he wouldn't have won any Super Bowls.  He wouldn't have gotten past the Oakland Raiders to get to the first one that's for sure.  And the other two were close games that they surely needed Brady.  Who else would have won it for them?

T

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#5 : August 18, 2007, 05:41:46 PM

Brady wouldn't have been the QB he is today without the NE coaching staff and Belichick wouldn't be a 3 time Super Bowl winner without Brady, they both need each other to be successful. Football is a co-dependent sport, and the only true team sport left.


leeroybuc93

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#6 : August 18, 2007, 05:43:52 PM

Brady wouldn't have been the QB he is today without the NE coaching staff and Belichick wouldn't be a 3 time Super Bowl winner without Brady, they both need each other to be successful. Football is a co-dependent sport, and the only true team sport left.

Exactly.  Some people act like Belichick had nothing to do with how good Brady turned out.

zed

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#7 : August 18, 2007, 05:51:07 PM

Yes, all that is true.  I was just answering the question if Belichick did not have Brady.  It's not as if Belichick could just take anyone and make him into like Tom Brady.  It takes a special player to make a Tom Brady.

Sgt.Shultz

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#8 : August 18, 2007, 05:51:33 PM

Take Peyton Manning away from Dungy = Bears SB Win


Ericsbucs371

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#9 : August 18, 2007, 05:57:14 PM

Take Peyton Manning away from Dungy = Bears SB Win
Take Manning away form Dungy = Colts not getting close to the SB




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#10 : August 18, 2007, 06:08:59 PM

Is this thread for real? Who lives their life in "what-ifs"?

Uncle Stan

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#11 : August 18, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

HAte,

Unfotunately, many do. They love to second guess.


Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981



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#12 : August 18, 2007, 06:18:06 PM

HAte,

Unfotunately, many do. They love to second guess.

I know Unc but this is silly. Take Sapp away from the Bucs D and it would've been a different team. That same can be said for any marquee player.

BucsGuru

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#13 : August 18, 2007, 06:36:37 PM

Spark, do you honestly believe that Gruden was responsible for the SB over the #1 ranked defense, and perhaps the 2nd greatest defense of all-time??  One thing you can never take away from Gruden is that he was the coach for the Bucs when we won the SB, but Barry Switzer was the coach when the Cowboys won one of theirs as well.



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#14 : August 18, 2007, 06:39:07 PM

Spark, do you honestly believe that Gruden was responsible for the SB over the #1 ranked defense, and perhaps the 2nd greatest defense of all-time?? One thing you can never take away from Gruden is that he was the coach for the Bucs when we won the SB, but Barry Switzer was the coach when the Cowboys won one of theirs as well.


Ouch!!!
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