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1sparkybuc

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#45 : August 20, 2007, 01:31:22 PM

My saintly old mother used to say "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t." Gruden has done the best he could with what he had to work with, and what he had to work with was not always his decision. He has made mistakes and I have been critical of several of them, but calling for his head when the team is just now competing in free agency, is not right. Dungy would have not reached the SB with this team. Belichick would have struggled here. There's no Tom Brady on this roster
Every player on the offense was selected by Jon Gruden.

Every coach and every GM makes mistakes, and they don't make them without advisement. I don't expect perfection. I do expect dedication and effort, and nobody can accuse Gruden of lacking that. I know he is working as hard as he can to make the Bucs competitive and balanced. I believe '08 will be a banner year for acquiring some critical pieces to the puzzle. We did very well this year. We have some players and some real competition for starting jobs. Guden and Allen deserve some credit for that. This is not Dungy's team anymore, and it certainly is not Rich McKay's.
I understand everyone makes mistakes, but where are Guden and Allen's home runs to balance the strikeouts?
McKay picked Simms.

Keep on hating and attacking if you want. Gruden and Allen are an important part of this franchise, and as long as they are, they will get my support and best wishes.
I hope to see you frustrated and aggravated at their success in the comming years. Garv, here's another one for you.

alldaway

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#46 : August 20, 2007, 01:33:18 PM

I wanted him here for the last 3 years, but he is really tied to Iowa. He is major attention to detail kind of HC. FYI, who did Ferentz coach under?

Ferentz would at least turn around the o-line in a hurry.

Feel Real Good

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#47 : August 20, 2007, 01:35:04 PM

McKay picked Simms.

Keep on hating and attacking if you want. Gruden and Allen are an important part of this franchise, and as long as they are, they will get my support and best wishes.
I hope to see you frustrated and aggravated at their success in the comming years. Garv, here's another one for you.
And unless three players ahead of Simms get hurt this season, he won't throw a single pass. Oh yeah, didn't GruAllen just sign Simms to a contract extension after he threw 1 TD and 7 INTs last year?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

1sparkybuc

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#48 : August 21, 2007, 05:01:09 AM

Honestly, if it is yet another Gruden is awesome, McKay is responsible for anything bad that will ever happen under Gruden, then I'll kindly take a pass on the PI.

From you we get Gruden is the demon seed and responsible for all things evil in the world. McKay was the greatest GM the league has ever known. And now you tell us Belichick would win the SB with Gradkowski as his QB.

I support the Bucs and that includes the HC and GM. Obviously you can't make that same statement.

Who do you root for when the Colts play the fowlgoons or either of them play the Patriots? It must get confusing for you.

MiltonMack21

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#49 : August 21, 2007, 08:28:55 AM

I still don't get why if you think, like I do, that Gruden is incapable of re-building a franchise that you are a McKay fan or root against the Buc's? I simply don't believe that Gruden and Aleen have the know how, eye for young talent to rebuild a franchise with YOUNG players. Not "veterans".


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#50 : August 21, 2007, 10:05:17 AM

Honestly, if it is yet another Gruden is awesome, McKay is responsible for anything bad that will ever happen under Gruden, then I'll kindly take a pass on the PI.

From you we get Gruden is the demon seed and responsible for all things evil in the world. McKay was the greatest GM the league has ever known. And now you tell us Belichick would win the SB with Gradkowski as his QB.

I support the Bucs and that includes the HC and GM. Obviously you can't make that same statement.

Who do you root for when the Colts play the fowlgoons or either of them play the Patriots? It must get confusing for you.

LOL!  Does it really take that little for you to lose control of your emotions that you resort to personal attacks?

I am a huge Bucs fan, which is why watching Gruden learning on the job is so painful to watch.  You obviously do not understand the depth that 3 out of 4 losing seasons means.  You certainly don't get how bad 4-12 is when you call Gruden a great or even good coach.  Great coaches simply don't - ever - lose 3 out of 4 seasons with a non-expansion team while in the prime of their career. 

I support the Bucs and want Gruden to do well.  I just don't see it happening if he brings in a guy like Allen who is about as poor a personnel man as there is in the game.  I love that you think that bringing in a 37 year old QB is somehow a version of "rebuilding."  The FO lacks a true football man and personnel guy.  How do you complain about the players fitting the O, when he goes out and spends the 5th pick in the draft on a RB that can't pass block or catch a simple swing pass?  How do you complain about the talent on O when Gruden plays Gradkowski and sits Rattay?  How do you complain about Simms when he gives him $3MM to sign?  In short, the FO is in shambles, with no leadership to guide us back.

On the field, Gruden's command of the offense in terms of attention to detail is terrible.  Again, you can, and will disagree, but does the team *look* well coached at any time last year?  The version of the WCO Gruden uses is outdated, predictable, and easy to diagnose.  His play calling, to put it mildly, is suspect.  His offensive staff is among the worst in football, yet Gruden refuses to make legitimate changes. 

I am a fan of the Bucs, but I just don't see this team getting back to winning, and winning with an identity until Gruden and especially Allen are gone.  If I'm wrong, that would be a pleasant surprise. 

1sparkybuc

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#51 : August 21, 2007, 02:07:56 PM

Honestly, if it is yet another Gruden is awesome, McKay is responsible for anything bad that will ever happen under Gruden, then I'll kindly take a pass on the PI.

From you we get Gruden is the demon seed and responsible for all things evil in the world. McKay was the greatest GM the league has ever known. And now you tell us Belichick would win the SB with Gradkowski as his QB.

I support the Bucs and that includes the HC and GM. Obviously you can't make that same statement.

Who do you root for when the Colts play the fowlgoons or either of them play the Patriots? It must get confusing for you.

LOL! Does it really take that little for you to lose control of your emotions that you resort to personal attacks?

I am a huge Bucs fan, which is why watching Gruden learning on the job is so painful to watch. You obviously do not understand the depth that 3 out of 4 losing seasons means. You certainly don't get how bad 4-12 is when you call Gruden a great or even good coach. Great coaches simply don't - ever - lose 3 out of 4 seasons with a non-expansion team while in the prime of their career.

I support the Bucs and want Gruden to do well. I just don't see it happening if he brings in a guy like Allen who is about as poor a personnel man as there is in the game. I love that you think that bringing in a 37 year old QB is somehow a version of "rebuilding." The FO lacks a true football man and personnel guy. How do you complain about the players fitting the O, when he goes out and spends the 5th pick in the draft on a RB that can't pass block or catch a simple swing pass? How do you complain about the talent on O when Gruden plays Gradkowski and sits Rattay? How do you complain about Simms when he gives him $3MM to sign? In short, the FO is in shambles, with no leadership to guide us back.

On the field, Gruden's command of the offense in terms of attention to detail is terrible. Again, you can, and will disagree, but does the team *look* well coached at any time last year? The version of the WCO Gruden uses is outdated, predictable, and easy to diagnose. His play calling, to put it mildly, is suspect. His offensive staff is among the worst in football, yet Gruden refuses to make legitimate changes.

I am a fan of the Bucs, but I just don't see this team getting back to winning, and winning with an identity until Gruden and especially Allen are gone. If I'm wrong, that would be a pleasant surprise.
What personal attack? I didn't call you anything

I disagree with a lot of things Gruden has done and have listed such in dozens of threads. The difference between us is I let it go at that and don't attack him like his main purpose is to destroy the team. You do. Whenever I see your name, I know without looking that your post will be something negative. I believe we had a good draft and picked up some needed help in free agency. I know we have some positions that will be addressed next year, but for now, we have some talent that will be here for the long run. I don't expect to win the SB this year but I am confident this team can reach the playoffs. We beat the fleagles (playoff team) and we nearly beat the conference champion last year. The Saints struggled to beat us in game six with a rookie QB. What would our record have been if had been able to keep Griese or if we had had Garcia. We were 11-5 the year before with most of the same starters. The QB was a big part of it, and Gruden had nothing to do with our cap situation.

If the Bucs are still struggling in '08 and '09, I might lose my patience with him. For now I'll leave the attacks to the trolls, and you.

CurtR1995

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#52 : August 21, 2007, 03:03:11 PM

Fair enough.  I appreciate the optimistic attitude, just mixed in with some reality. 

dr3z

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#53 : August 21, 2007, 03:23:31 PM

Take Trent Dilfer away from Brian Billick..............
 
The point is this: no matter how great a coach is, if he doesn't have some degree of talent at QB, he's going nowhere. Gruden has had very little to work with over the last few years. My guess is that will soon change.



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#54 : August 21, 2007, 09:39:08 PM

My saintly old mother used to say "You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t."

My wise ole great-grandmother used to say "when the world gives you lemons, you make lemonade".

How much longer must we endure these excuses?

I simply don't believe that Gruden and Aleen have the know how, eye for young talent to rebuild a franchise with YOUNG players. Not "veterans".

I agree completely.... they've given us NO REASON to think otherwise.
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