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1sparkybuc

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#15 : August 22, 2007, 10:52:42 AM

As heinous as dog fighting is, the real issue as far as the NFL is concerned is gambling. That is what affects "the integrity of the game."

Imagine if Vick hadn't been caught, and one of his esteemed dog fighting/gambling "colleagues" came to Vick and told him if he didn't do something next week against the Kitties, like fumble a couple of times or throw a couple of picks at an "inopportune" moment, he'll start leaking stuff about his off-field activities, and wreck his career.

Kinda puts Vick in an ugly situation, doesn't it?

THAT is the crux of the issue in the eyes of the NFL.

Every camp has former FBI agents and NFL security folks give a mandatory "chat" with the entire team, describing how gambling and "friends" can compromise them. Vick has heard this talk every year he's been in the league. It's not like he didn't know the possibilities.

Dog fighting is a PR issue for the league, but can be mitigated. But illegal gambling can damage the league to it's core. Just ask the NBA how one rotten ref has affected the integrity of THEIR game.

I completely disagree. I don't think the gambling angle is anywhere near as appalling (to the NFL) as the cruelty issue. This whole mess reflects poorly on the NFL. It is a business and they are trying to build a brand. Vick, who was arguably one of the sports most popular players, has damaged the league by being involved in something so disgusting. I am sure the gambling issue has been discussed, but I doubt there is even any evidence to support the notion that Vick ever "threw" games.



The cruelty issue is more appalling to the NFL, but I seriously doubt that they have written rules that specify it will get you banned. Obviously killing domestic animals comes under the general heading of unacceptable behavior. Illegal gambling is specified and Vick's dog pit is not a casino. Vick is walking, talking human garbage. I would credit the owners with enough sense to know that Michael Vick is a public relations nightmare. OJ and Pittman were involved in crimes of passion. This is different. This is the premeditated slaughter of living creatures, repeatedly, over and over again, strictly for his amusement.

This is not something people are going to forgive or forget. This is a major flaw in his character. He will continue to be admired by a lowlife segment of our society but he is a pariah to decent human beings. Vick will not play in the NFL again.

Balls Out

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#16 : August 22, 2007, 11:01:54 AM

While I am no fan of dogfighting, I do believe that the outrage being thrown at Vick is over-blown. This whole ordeal is a great example of just how f-ed up our priorities are. There is a president/vice-president sitting in the white house today who delibrately lied to the American people to get them into an un-winnable war costing thousands of American lifes, hundreds of thousand Iraqi lives and billions of dollars/day of the American tax payers money.
Yet what's everybody talking about? To me that's just as sick as anything Vicks done.


What Pittman did is unaceptable but it is apples to elephants compared to Vick. Just no comparison. Vick engaged in a premeditated long term criminal and barbaric activity that lasted over several years. He had hundreds of opportunities to quit and he continued. Pittman has already stated that if he could get that moment back he would have acted differently. Vick had thousands of moments to rethink and he continued on a barbaric path.



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#17 : August 22, 2007, 11:09:51 AM

Does anyone honestly believe that no one ever breathed a word about the off season fun and games Michael persued to Blank, McKay or anyone else with access to the front office?? 

That stuff doesn't go on without someone else on the team knowing about it.  There's a big part of this story that has yet to be told.   


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#18 : August 22, 2007, 11:20:30 AM

.
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I am not saying he threw games. BUT, as the NFL secirity guys point out every year for every NFL player, illegal gambling puts you in a compromised position, effecting the integrity of the game. Ask David Stern.

I am not discounting the whole sordid affair. But the dogffighting is a PR issue; the illegal gambling effects the integrity of the game.

But how do we know he HASN'T thrown games? I'm not saying he has at all. But it gives you pause, if he was involved with low-life gamblers as that NBA ref was...
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The NBA debacle is quite different in my view because there was clear evidence supporting the notion that he was involved in gambling within the NBA. There is absolutely no evidence (at least not yet) supporting the fact that Vick bet on, effected the outcome, or "threw" NFL games. It is completely baseless at this point and is not even being mentioned as a possibility within the media (that I have seen). I just think that aspect is a complete non-issue at this point.

rocko23

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#19 : August 22, 2007, 11:44:17 AM

While I am no fan of dogfighting, I do believe that the outrage being thrown at Vick is over-blown. This whole ordeal is a great example of just how f-ed up our priorities are. There is a president/vice-president sitting in the white house today who delibrately lied to the American people to get them into an un-winnable war costing thousands of American lifes, hundreds of thousand Iraqi lives and billions of dollars/day of the American tax payers money.
Yet what's everybody talking about? To me that's just as sick as anything Vicks done.

I agree, 

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#20 : August 22, 2007, 12:57:42 PM

The NBA debacle is quite different in my view because there was clear evidence supporting the notion that he was involved in gambling within the NBA. There is absolutely no evidence (at least not yet) supporting the fact that Vick bet on, effected the outcome, or "threw" NFL games. It is completely baseless at this point and is not even being mentioned as a possibility within the media (that I have seen). I just think that aspect is a complete non-issue at this point.
You have COMPLETELY missed my point.

The REASON that the NFL includes associating with gamblers/gangsters in the "personal conduct" clause is BECAUSE that association CAN compromise the "integrity of the game"...and put themselves in a position of being extorted. Associating with known illegal gamblers puts a questionable taint on games he is a part of.

I refer you to Joe Namath and Brothers III.

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#21 : August 22, 2007, 01:25:01 PM

This isn't a stupid mistake which you can ask forgiveness and have a PR strategy for redemption like many folks have suggested. People saying he needs to make amends by taking accountability and being a spokesperson for animal rights make me laugh as was suggested on the Monday Night Countdown set yesterday. Would anybody actually believe him? He could be in a commercial with a bunch of puppies speaking against animal cruelty and you know what he would be thinking.....This one would make a champion fighter or show that poodle whose boss. Mike Vick needs help and probably treatment.

Overall, Mike Vick is the king of stupid and a cruel person. My dog annoys me, but she is part of the family which she would protect with her life and I love her for it. I am not some PETA freak, but the way in which the media and players have commented on the situation has really annoyed me. I would be proud of the individual player or former player that would man-up and call Mike Vick for what he is.....America's dumbest criminal.

In my eyes, a dog is a dog, nothing more. I don't get the "part of the family stuff" but to each his own.

But on the subject of Vick apologizing, we are in full agreement. A mistake is something you do ONCE, not over a period of years and for anyone to suggest that Vick should show contrition is ridiculous. The only thing he's sorry for is getting caught. The guy is a jackass, plain and simple.

No amount of public service announcements will change that!!!

dbucfan

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#22 : August 22, 2007, 01:37:21 PM

We will see Hate, folks - Americans in general - are very forgiving - sometimes rightfully and sometimes wrongfully.  I will not be surprised if Vick does make it partially back to his prior status. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#23 : August 22, 2007, 01:50:30 PM

As the Michael Vick situation unraveled yesterday I watched much of the coverage on ESPN, and the comments that the current and former NFL players have made in the media. After watching the aftermath of the guilty plea, I am thoroughly disgusted with the bulk of what I have heard that is featured on ESPN from current players and many pundits. For such a machismo sport, it appears many players and experts alike need to man-up and call this situation for what it is.......A heinous and sick crime, and call Michael Vick what he is.... a stupid sick person that gets his rocks off by watching two dogs maul each other.

Listening to the much of the sports talk on TV and radio over the past several days have produced many vigorous conversations. Mostly, people talk about Michael Vick as this has happened to him. The last I heard he does not have cancer (maybe herpes) or did not come down with some death threatening illness. He is not your brother as many teammates have said that hung out with the wrong people or got into a bad situation. This guy did not pull a Pittman and go crazy during an argument. This was a deliberate act over many years which he showed total disregard for the gifts he was granted. Vick put himself in this situation because he is the king of stupid!

The origin of the dog fighting ring goes back several years as Vick entered the league. Top on my list if I win the lottery is not to begin an illegal do fighting ring. Many superstars piss away their money on women, boos, and extravagance. However, Vick decided after winning the NFL lottery to be the best illegal dog fighter in the world. If you need to gamble so bad take up golf like MJ or buy a home in Vegas.

This isn't a stupid mistake which you can ask forgiveness and have a PR strategy for redemption like many folks have suggested. People saying he needs to make amends by taking accountability and being a spokesperson for animal rights make me laugh as was suggested on the Monday Night Countdown set yesterday. Would anybody actually believe him? He could be in a commercial with a bunch of puppies speaking against animal cruelty and you know what he would be thinking.....This one would make a champion fighter or show that poodle whose boss. Mike Vick needs help and probably treatment.

Overall, Mike Vick is the king of stupid and a cruel person. My dog annoys me, but she is part of the family which she would protect with her life and I love her for it. I am not some PETA freak, but the way in which the media and players have commented on the situation has really annoyed me. I would be proud of the individual player or former player that would man-up and call Mike Vick for what he is.....America's dumbest criminal.




Are you on Prozac?



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#24 : August 22, 2007, 06:24:49 PM

We will see Hate, folks - Americans in general - are very forgiving - sometimes rightfully and sometimes wrongfully.

You are absolutely correct.

dbucfan

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#25 : August 22, 2007, 06:42:40 PM

PETA is not forgiving.

Tell me you can't imagine the public service announcements and the large donation - it isn't right but it is certainly doable.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Uncle Stan

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#26 : August 22, 2007, 07:45:14 PM

What's he going to use for $? He will be broke soon-the lawyers will certainly take a big chunk, the feds some more and then pay Blank.




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LtFox

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#27 : August 22, 2007, 08:21:53 PM

The NBA debacle is quite different in my view because there was clear evidence supporting the notion that he was involved in gambling within the NBA. There is absolutely no evidence (at least not yet) supporting the fact that Vick bet on, effected the outcome, or "threw" NFL games. It is completely baseless at this point and is not even being mentioned as a possibility within the media (that I have seen). I just think that aspect is a complete non-issue at this point.
You have COMPLETELY missed my point.

The REASON that the NFL includes associating with gamblers/gangsters in the "personal conduct" clause is BECAUSE that association CAN compromise the "integrity of the game"...and put themselves in a position of being extorted. Associating with known illegal gamblers puts a questionable taint on games he is a part of.

I refer you to Joe Namath and Brothers III.

I see what you are saying, but I think these thugs were REALLY low level and didn't have a pot to piss in. Allegedly, Vick fronted all the money for the buildings, dogs, bets, etc. I doubt even Michael Vick, as stupid as he obviously is, would go down that road. Dog fighting he might have gotten away with, but manipulating NFL football games is "betting" at a whole new level. It isn't like having a couple of homies over to watch some poor animals get decimated for fun.

You make a good point though that I obviously missed. Take care.

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#28 : August 22, 2007, 10:11:59 PM





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Are you on Prozac?
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A great first post!  Welcome to the board.  Your comment is short of adding value to the discussion.  Are you on Enzyte?

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#29 : August 22, 2007, 11:08:37 PM





Quote

Are you on Prozac?
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A great first post! Welcome to the board. Your comment is short of adding value to the discussion. Are you on Enzyte?

Yep....your girl brought me some of yours when she came over for a little quality time at lunch today!
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